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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: Lowering the pitch of a cornet 1/4 step |
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Here's an interesting solution to lowering the pitch of a Bb cornet about 1/4 step. Our Civil War band has a mismatched set of instruments (as do most) and we have to tune with the lowest-pitched instrument in the group, which happens to be the Eb bass.
With his tuning slide pushed all the way in, my Bb cornet needs its tuning slide pulled way out, to the point of some leakage and poor playability.
I just bought a Reeves cornet-to-cornet mouthpiece adapter that is designed to place a piccolo trumpet in A when using the Bb pipe. Since it lowers the pitch 1/2 step on the picc, I reasoned it would lower the pitch about 1/4 step on my cornet. It's just enough on my cornet to allow me to push the tuning slide in with about 1/4" left to spare. The cornet seems to play better, and as a side benefit, the adapter moves my lyre a little farther away making it easier for me to see the music...
Here are a couple pictures. The tuning slide is that horizontal loop below the rotors.
_________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:14 am Post subject: |
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In the 1960's when brass bands switched from high to low pitch a lot of the instruments were converted by having the slides lengthened. What you have done looks like a viable alternative as getting those conversions done now is expensive and invasive. Also, they often don't work with modern mouthpieces. I had one that had to be partially deconverted (10mm of each side of the main tuning slide) to get it back into a=440. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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Wrms Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 129
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: |
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That looks like a great solution. I ordered one up. I'm always wrestling with the high pitch/low pitch thing with my collection and in my 1800s group, the Whiskey Flats Brass Band.
What do you do about missing leadpipes? I have a couple of horns that I think would be nice players but are missing leadpipes. As you know, they are not necessarily interchangeable.
Mark _________________ A bunch of trumpets
and
A bunch of cornets |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: |
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That is a very cool looking instrument Dale! |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1531 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: Lowering pitch cornet |
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Hello Dale,
I had a Reeves adapter for my pic and did that with a turn of the century French C cornet. It worked great. Just pull the other slides a little and you are good to go. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Lowering the pitch of a cornet 1/4 step |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | Here's an interesting solution to lowering the pitch of a Bb cornet about 1/4 step. Our Civil War band has a mismatched set of instruments (as do most) and we have to tune with the lowest-pitched instrument in the group, which happens to be the Eb bass.
With his tuning slide pushed all the way in, my Bb cornet needs its tuning slide pulled way out, to the point of some leakage and poor playability.
I just bought a Reeves cornet-to-cornet mouthpiece adapter that is designed to place a piccolo trumpet in A when using the Bb pipe. Since it lowers the pitch 1/2 step on the picc, I reasoned it would lower the pitch about 1/4 step on my cornet. It's just enough on my cornet to allow me to push the tuning slide in with about 1/4" left to spare. The cornet seems to play better, and as a side benefit, the adapter moves my lyre a little farther away making it easier for me to see the music... |
Wow, I was wondering about something similar for that, since I just bought one of the same Reeves adapters, but to use in my picc. I found out through a friend that had one that my 7-4 plays better on the A side with the adapter in the Bb pipe than it does with the stock A pipe. I have no idea why, but it just works.
Just the other day I was wondering if it would work for 'converting' a Bb cornet into an A cornet, despite the major differences between leadpipe lengths on a cornet and a picc. Seeing this post reminded me to break out the tuner and give it a try.
#IReallyHateATransposition _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think the adapter by itself would lower a Bb cornet to A. I think you'd still have to pull all your slides (including the tuning slide) out a bit. It works on the picc because it's only half as long as a Bb cornet. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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Wrms wrote: | That looks like a great solution. I ordered one up. I'm always wrestling with the high pitch/low pitch thing with my collection and in my 1800s group, the Whiskey Flats Brass Band.
What do you do about missing leadpipes? I have a couple of horns that I think would be nice players but are missing leadpipes. As you know, they are not necessarily interchangeable.
Mark |
If you have access to a good brass tech, you could buy an old mouthpiece bit (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to) on eBay or wherever and have it customized to fit your horn. I've also had one built from scratch before. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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John Mohan wrote: | That is a very cool looking instrument Dale! |
Thanks John! It's a ca. 1870 side action rotary valve Bb cornet made by Henry Lehnert in Philadelphia. Constructed of German silver with oval-port Allen valves. Playing it makes me appreciate modern horns...ha ha
_________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Wrms Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 129
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: |
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My adapter arrived yesterday and works a treat. Now I have (at least) three pre 1900 Ebs to choose from, my band mates will be thrilled They love it when the Eb cornets pitch center changes every time he picks up a different horn.
The two high pitch horns are looking like tubas with the various bits on the mp side.
Mark _________________ A bunch of trumpets
and
A bunch of cornets |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9361 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Wrms wrote: | My adapter arrived yesterday and works a treat. Now I have (at least) three pre 1900 Ebs to choose from, my band mates will be thrilled They love it when the Eb cornets pitch center changes every time he picks up a different horn.
The two high pitch horns are looking like tubas with the various bits on the mp side.
Mark |
Great! Yes, fluctuating pitch centers from other instruments are fun, especially when you're already fighting your antique horn to play it in tune with the group. Let's see...this note needs to be lipped up, this one down, and this one is better in tune with an alternate fingering...ha ha _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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