Debating on Adams A4 or Taylor Chicago Model trumpets.

beaukit720 · New Member Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 2

I am looking to purchase a new trumpet in the near future and have narrowed my choices down to the Adams A4 or the Taylor Chicago model trumpets. I also have been looking at the Edwards Generation 3xb which looks amazing also. If anyone has any good info or advice on the differences, valves, etc. let me know what you think or which one you would go with for whatever reason. Thank you

GuidoCorona · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:36 am Post subject:

I have no direct experience with the Taylor or Edwards trumpets, but own and totally adore the Adams A4 heavy with gold brass bell (no shepherd crook).

Mechanically, A4 is a jewel, or perhaps a Swiss watch. Or should I say... A Dutch clock?!

The valves are unbelievably smooth, while all slides are super-silky.

Its tone is in general warm, with a very solid core, but is also extremely sensitive to MPs. While I usually try for a more romantic sound on it, using Curry TC, F.O TTC, or even a Stork A cornet piece, the use of Curry B or BC morphs the instrument towards the orchestral side. a friend of mine obtained on my horn, as well as on his A4 with shepherd crook a fantastic orchestral tone with a Monette piece (sorry, I do not remember the model) of his Monette).

He told me that he was considering very seriously also the Edwards Gen III, but finally opted for the A4 with shepherd crook because, according to his playing tests, A4 may have yielded a wider palette of tone colors.

Note that A4 has a few variants in addition to the more common heavy and light versions... There is the Shepherd crook, a special order version with double crooks for even warmer sound, and a special order version with four valve to bridge down towards the pedal range.

Traditionally, bells can be ordered in yellow, gold, red brass, or Sterling Silver.... But I suspect that Copper might also be available now.... Trent Austin can confirm, deny, or correct.
Regards, G.
Regards, Guido
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

wee steve · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject:

I suspect that you may be in Europe and possibly England. That's why I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.
I bought one of the original Eclipse trumpets, like Taylor's and now Adams it had one of the German bauernfeind valve blocks, they were amazing. Adams then bought the company but did not keep on the workers so consequently the quality of the block suffered. This might not be the case now but it was back then. So to get on with it, Eclipse and Taylor are now using another valve block that is equally good. This week I took my horn to Eclipse to be rebuilt around the original valve block, I settled on a medium yellow celeste. I went there having the pre conceived idea that I wouldn't like the celeste as it looks too traditional like a Bach. Having tried the Enigma and the Celeste, I was hooked, everything about these horns is amazing as is the team and their customer service. I got there after work at 5:30 and stayed until 8pm just trying every leadpipe and bell combination and Leigh remained patient with me despite picking up and putting down the MY and MR bell over and over again and saying I like them both. So if you are in England and are looking at a real custom horn then the Taylor and Adams are great but I also urge you to go see Leigh too, even if you don't buy it you'll have a good day.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

TKSop · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:21 pm Post subject:

Just out of interest... how have you narrowed it down to those particular two/three?

Have you played a bunch of different models and decided that these two suit you best?

I'd certainly echo the suggestion to try the Eclipses, the Celeste's are amazing - particularly the CLS (changeable leadpipe system) model for me, though Leigh reckons it's about 50/50 between people who prefer fixed and CLS models.

GuidoCorona · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject:

Aren't Eclipse and Taylor now sourcing their valve blocks from CarolBrass?
G.
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

wee steve · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject:

I too have gone CLS, I know that for the majority of it I'll spend on one leadpipe and I did think the fixed leadpipes was amazing but I just felt that this option was too good to refuse. The Taylor's are obviously great horns too but you have to at least consider Eclipse they are amazing in every way, I like the look of the Adams but have never tried one and to be honest I always fancied trying HBL If I was going Dutch.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

TKSop · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject:

wee steve · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject:

Yes Taylor, Eclipse and others are using the Hoxton Gakki blocks, as Leigh said to me they are not exactly the same, they are in a way but built to his specs and not swappable, I believe Hoxton Gakki made blocks before they made Carol, I think Carol are the sons company, also decent horns but probably just a level below. I'd say having tried them this week they are just as good as the original block that I have on mine.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

GuidoCorona · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject:

Valves on my Carolbrass cornets are very fine indeed, although they took a spell to reach the speed and buttery smoothness that they show now... There might have been a little bit of gunk residue from the horn manufacturing process.

The Valves of the Adams A4 instead were wonderful from day 1. CB valves on my cornets are still a little noisier than on the Adams A4. But I have no complaint, as the CB cornets are priced IMO well below their overall performance and construction level.

Having said the above, I suspect that the various high end boutique manufacturers that source CB valve blocks, might do a certain amount of additional work/cleaning to make the mechanisms conform with their own standards for a finished instrument.

G.
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

wee steve · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject:

I know a lot of top players that use a carol as a back up horn, or as a pocket trumpet and lots of manufacturers are now using the valve block. At the the end of the day the valves are steel and are going to take time to bed in, you are very lucky that your Adams was butteeey smooth fromday one because most blocks take at least a good few months of constant playing.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

GuidoCorona · Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject:

Hi Steve, thinking about it, my A4 had been used/demoed in the store and/or shows for a bit prior to me purchasing it.... So, Trent and his team might very well have broken in the valves for me.

Guido
_________________
Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

Locutus2k · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 12:58 am Post subject:

I just don't get why Getzen valves are not the first choice for the boutique horns (maybe they costs more but so these horns). They are the best ones in the world, hands down. Getzen valves with soft Getzen springs are just on another quality level once you've tried them you can't go back.

My opinion on Hoxxon is that they are fine valve blocks for the Carol horns but if i had to buy an expensive custom trumpet i would not choose them.
_________________
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Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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wee steve · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:09 am Post subject:

It's really simple, Hoxton not only make great valve blocks in stainless steel, they also allow the manufacturer to customize them to their own needs and specifications, Getzen from what I am told is take it the way we do it or leave it.
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

bach_again · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 1:40 am Post subject:

Make a point to try the horns!!

I had a Taylor Chicago Standard 46 II. A very well made instrument and the Bauerfiend block felt great, but it blew so damn open!! One of the most open horns I've ever blown. The 0.470" bore is more again. 0.0

Mike
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TrentAustin · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:41 am Post subject:

TKSop · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:42 am Post subject:

wee steve · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:07 am Post subject:

Hi Trent, I am sure the Adams block is fantastic, I wasn't meaning that the Germans were fired, I meant that production had shifted to holland therefore they lost some/all workers, I don't know why you would think the HK blocks are still untested they've been around a long while now. I have also heard that a first valve in a HK valve is instantly swappable with another HK first valve whereas the original Beurnfiends apparently are not, I am a big fan of these valves but I do worry that if one ever goes I am stuffed. Having said that I've heard Adams are amazing manufacturers and I am sure they have improved that block to b swappable. I mean no disrespect to Adams here Trent so if my info is wrong pm me and I'll edit my original post.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

TrentAustin · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:15 am Post subject:

wee steve · Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 11:31 am Post subject:

Interesting because I tried a few eclipses this week on the HK valves and the sound and projection was huge, I also tried two eclipses on the other block and although I am biased because I love the valve b block in mine, one of the b blocks couldn't compete with the HK block until the bell was changed then it became massive, the other was on a great new bell and was huge already. So personally I am convinced it's the bell giving that sound and projection, it could be that if the horn is only worth 1k then the bell and leadpipe must be cheaper quality too?
_________________
Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn

Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii

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