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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: Alternative styles of lyre |
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Hi
It is Last Post and Reveille time again.
Although I know both fluently off by heart, I've always used music on the day. I don't know why, I think it is just added security. I play Principal cornet, so have done a fair few cornet solos in my time, and really enjoy playing solos. I admittedly haven't played the Last Post or Reveille for around eight years, but historically, it has been the only gig which makes me feel nervous. It has always gone well (I've even received lots of compliments over the years, which is always nice), but I can't say that I usually feel particularly well. Owing to nerves and possibly also the cold, I seem to have a tight chest, can't breathe particularly well and have even felt dizzy and sick. I'm playing the Last Post and Reveille at a new setting this year, on behalf of my brass band. I've got to telephone the vicar tomorrow to finalise the arrangements, but my understanding is that the war memorial is outside the church, and I've either got to set up outside and wait in the cold, or attend the service and go out just ahead of the congregation. I think that it would be rather unsociable to wait outside, so plan on attending the service.
I don't imagine that the weather will permit leaving a music stand outside ready, so I thought that I'd try my lyre.
Firstly, the stem of the lyre is too small for the lyre holder of my cornet and rocks back and forth, secondly I have the combination of being almost 44 and having convergence insufficiency (a difficulty in converging my eyes at near). My optician did say that she could give me an additional +0.25 for reading, but it didn't seem worth having a second pair of glasses only +0.25 stronger than my everyday pair, especially since I rarely need to read particularly close. The result is that the lyre distance is slightly blurred with my distance prescription (not too much to not be able to see it reasonably well, but enough to give me a headache), and although it remains single today, kept separating into two separate images when I tried it a few days ago, which makes it unreadable.
I'll use a stand this year, and carry it out with me, but I'm wondering about options for future years if I get this gig again. It is no big deal, but just for interests sake, I'm wondering what others are doing + alternatives.
I've asked my colleagues, and have gotten responses from taking their glasses off (that makes it even worse for me), to wearing their reading rather than music glasses, to not caring if it is out of focus as long as it is readable, to closing their eyes and playing it from memory.
Are there other types of lyre available that don't end up with the music so close.
Or is it a case of braving it without the security of the music, since it is not as if I even need the music, and I just have it there for the sake of it?
Good luck to everyone who is playing the Last Post and Reveille on Sunday.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2333 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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There is a lyre that clips to the bell.. the obvious down side is the weight - really throws the balance off - all the weight is at the end of the trumpet. But is significantly easier too see..
I've have also seen some DIY settups... one of the stock lyres from a Baritone or Trombone and bending the long rod/stem to hold the music further away.
But you'd have to have an instrument with a pretty significant lyre mount - or "mickey mouse" some way of attaching it to your horn.
Knowing well that "security" issue. I 've had the pleasure of serving in the US Air Force with assignements from Japan to Belgium. I've had the opportuinty to render many Bugle Calls and other music from various counrties and services. Not being the quickest to memorize things... I've been known to make a rather small copy of a particular piece and tape it to my bell where only I could see it. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2665 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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The simplest solution is to just memorise Last Post and Rouse (Revaille if you will).
Cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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ketch22 Regular Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2014 Posts: 45 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Lou,
I am also playing Last Post and Reveille tomorrow morning. I've known professional musicians who used music for security - it is not an easy piece to memorize. But many years ago I "bit the bullet" and started playing by memory. It is so much a better presentation for the seriousness of the service and the Veterans always appreciate someone who has taken the time and effort to play without the music. That is my recommendation.
I will be playing outside at a local park cenotaph again, and this year I'm expecting an almost warm -8C (15F) in sunshine. Last year was -15C with a 20km wind - not pleasant - but 1000 people stood there in that bitter wind for an hour service!
Good luck with your service tomorrow (today in the UK) however you choose - memory or music.
K22 _________________ "I see music as fluid architecture": Joni Mitchell
http://www.rupertslandbrass.ca |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:51 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | There is a lyre that clips to the bell.. the obvious down side is the weight - really throws the balance off - all the weight is at the end of the trumpet. But is significantly easier too see..
Hi zaferis
Thanks very much. I thought of these, but I'm concerned that having attached to the bell would affect the sound.
I've have also seen some DIY settups... one of the stock lyres from a Baritone or Trombone and bending the long rod/stem to hold the music further away.
Thanks very much. This is along the lines of what I was thinking about.
But you'd have to have an instrument with a pretty significant lyre mount - or "mickey mouse" some way of attaching it to your horn.
I understand. The stem of my lyre is too narrow for my lyre holder, but I have no idea how wide the stem is of a baritone/trombone lyre, or whether it would fit in my cornet.
Knowing well that "security" issue. I 've had the pleasure of serving in the US Air Force with assignements from Japan to Belgium. I've had the opportuinty to render many Bugle Calls and other music from various counrties and services.
Sounds great, and must have been a real honour.
Not being the quickest to memorize things... I've been known to make a rather small copy of a particular piece and tape it to my bell where only I could see it.
Thanks very much. I'd have to think of the logistics of this one.
Take care
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:52 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | The simplest solution is to just memorise Last Post and Rouse (Revaille if you will).
Cheers
Andy |
Hi Andy
I did say the following:
Louise Finch wrote: |
Although I know both fluently off by heart, I've always used music on the day. I don't know why, I think it is just added security. |
I just feel more comfortable looking at the music.
Thanks very much anyway.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:05 am Post subject: |
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ketch22 wrote: | Hi Lou,
Hi ketch22
I am also playing Last Post and Reveille tomorrow morning.
I really hope that it will go well.
I've known professional musicians who used music for security - it is not an easy piece to memorize.
I somehow have managed to memorize it and not forget it, even though I haven't played it at all in eight years. There is however a loop hole in the Last Post. The bars before the Come to the Cook House door style section are the same as the bars before the ending, and I know from experience, when I did the last post for the first time after having been playing for only six weeks, and I had to play it from memory because the music somehow fell off the stand, that it is possible to go into the Come to the Cook House door style section again rather than the ending, and effectively make it half as long again.
But many years ago I "bit the bullet" and started playing by memory. It is so much a better presentation for the seriousness of the service and the Veterans always appreciate someone who has taken the time and effort to play without the music. That is my recommendation.
Thanks very much.
I will be playing outside at a local park cenotaph again, and this year I'm expecting an almost warm -8C (15F) in sunshine. Last year was -15C with a 20km wind - not pleasant - but 1000 people stood there in that bitter wind for an hour service!
That sounds incredibly cold!
Good luck with your service tomorrow (today in the UK) however you choose - memory or music.
It will be tomorrow also in the UK, at least for most of us UK players. It is 11.02am on Saturday 11th November here at the moment, but remembrance day is always celebrated on a Sunday, so I have just under 24 hours to go.
K22
Take care
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2333 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Security -- many professional performers, singers and instrumentalists alike, have a copy of the music nearby.. For those moments that some crazy thing goies on, you go blank, or you just want to be prepared for the unplanned.
You have one shot to render a Bugle Call, a National Anthem, or other beloved selection, with all that it brings in meaning there is no room for error.
Regarding memorizing muisc was it Beethovan that said, "I have written more than notes, no musician should perform from memory as they will not recall everything...."? _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: |
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zaferis wrote: | Security -- many professional performers, singers and instrumentalists alike, have a copy of the music nearby.. For those moments that some crazy thing goies on, you go blank, or you just want to be prepared for the unplanned.
You have one shot to render a Bugle Call, a National Anthem, or other beloved selection, with all that it brings in meaning there is no room for error.
Hi zaferis
That is exactly how I see it.
Regarding memorizing muisc was it Beethovan that said, "I have written more than notes, no musician should perform from memory as they will not recall everything...."?
He has a point. Maybe it is possible to subconsciously remember every dynamic, every mark of expression, if the player is familiar enough with the piece and plays it enough times, but their own interpretation probably takes over, with them playing their own variations to the written dynamics, marks of expression.
Thanks very much.
Take care
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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That’s a pretty long bugle call. I don’t know it, so I’d use the music. But if knew it well, I’d rather play it from memory.
I can relate to that last-minute panic attack: what if I lose my place? I always worry about that. But I’ve played lots of solos from memory, and somehow that rarely happens when I feel well-prepared.
A benefit to playing from memory is that I memorize and recall phrases, not individual notes, whereas reading music tends to make my mind work a note at a time, or a few notes at a time. I think performances tend to sound better when I’m thinking about delivering phrases rather than processing notes.
Anyway, good luck, and I’m sure you’ll do well! _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | That’s a pretty long bugle call. I don’t know it, so I’d use the music. But if knew it well, I’d rather play it from memory.
Hi dstdenis
Thanks very much. I suppose that it is rather long, I've never particularly thought about it.
I can relate to that last-minute panic attack: what if I lose my place? I always worry about that. But I’ve played lots of solos from memory, and somehow that rarely happens when I feel well-prepared.
That is exactly what I'm worrying about. I do know it well, but am worried about my mind going blank and forgetting where I am, as certain phrases come round again. As I said earlier, the few bars preceding the ending are the same as the ones preceeding the Come to the Cook House Door section in the middle, and it is possible to go round again rather than to the ending, or less likely, to go to the ending too soon.
A benefit to playing from memory is that I memorize and recall phrases, not individual notes, whereas reading music tends to make my mind work a note at a time, or a few notes at a time. I think performances tend to sound better when I’m thinking about delivering phrases rather than processing notes.
I understand what you mean. I have many faults as a player, believe me, but since I tend to read quite a few bars ahead, I feel that I am able to think about delivering phrases rather than processing notes, whilst I am reading. I'm probably however lacking in lots of other areas in which you are more proficient.
Anyway, good luck, and I’m sure you’ll do well!
Thanks very much. It normally does go well, but I'm already very nervous. Being at a different venue is making it worse, and it is outside. I've already decided to turn up a little early and serenade the church yard with my warm up routine, before the congregation start entering the church (they are coming out to the war memorial after the initial blessing).
I'm going to use a music stand and music magnets. Hopefully it won't rain. I have a laminated version of the Last Post and Reveille anyhow, so it would probably be all right, and my cornet has already survived playing for two hours in the pouring rain. I'll never forget that gig, a complete nightmare and my clothes were soaked completely through. Luckily it was in the summer!
Take care
Lou |
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hi
Going back to the topic of lyres, as a matter of interest, can most people see the music clearly at the distance of a cornet lyre?
I can see it well enough to read it, as long as it decides to stay single (having convergence insufficiency, sometimes I cannot keep the images from each eye fused together at such a close distance, and it keeps alternating between single and double), but it isn't fully in focus unless I move it to behind the bell.
My optician didn't seem to think that there was much amiss with my near vision, although she said that she could give me a little stronger prescription for close reading, which there didn't seem very much point to at the time, as reading the Last Post on a lyre was not something I was thinking about when I last had my eyes tested in June, and she didn't recommend it, as she knows that I can't bear my distance vision being not fully in focus, and the difference between the two prescriptions would be too little for bifocals or varifocals. Probably this slightly stronger prescription would be the answer, if the image always stayed single.
I imagine that I am very lucky to be able to be able to read music as well as I can, since an optician told me when I was only twenty that my eye tracking and convergence were so poor that he was surprised that I could read at all. I could and I still can at almost 44, so I reckon I'm doing alright lol.
Good luck to everyone else playing the Last Post tomorrow.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | A benefit to playing from memory is that I memorize and recall phrases, not individual notes, whereas reading music tends to make my mind work a note at a time, or a few notes at a time. I think performances tend to sound better when I’m thinking about delivering phrases rather than processing notes.
Louise Finch wrote: | I understand what you mean. I have many faults as a player, believe me, but since I tend to read quite a few bars ahead, I feel that I am able to think about delivering phrases rather than processing notes, whilst I am reading. I'm probably however lacking in lots of other areas in which you are more proficient. |
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You're very kind, and too modest I'm sure. We all have our faults, but I have a sneaking suspicion that your talent, hard work and experience have given you admirable proficiency to enable you to play music and share it with others in the settings you've described.
That's cool that you read that far ahead. I peek ahead when I can, but I generally read where I'm playing. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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