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Jhereg
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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Overland Park, KS
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 Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Couesnon & Cie Flugel: What's the Appeal? |
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Hi All!
I have recently come across a Couesnon & Cie flugel, very old but still plays nicely. It's for sale but I won't post the link here, I haven't got my five posts/marketplace activation yet and that would be cheating!
Mostly I'm just curious to know what the appeal of these instruments is. Do they have some unique quality that adds something to a particular style of music? What is their preferred use in a modern setting?
Any input/thoughts/philosophy appreciated. Thanks 
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Megan O, BAC Music |
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iiipopes
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Couesnon & Cie Flugel: What's the Appeal? |
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| Jhereg wrote: | | Mostly I'm just curious to know what the appeal of these instruments is. Do they have some unique quality that adds something to a particular style of music? What is their preferred use in a modern setting? |
OK, I will get the flippant comment out of the way first: If we have to explain, you wouldn't understand.
OK, now on to the real comment. The romantic version is that they have a mellow, smoky, piquant tone that is inimitable and the standard by which all other flugelhorns are judged. The practical version is that the "student" models were incredibly cheap in the 50's and '60's, so all the jazz players bought one to go with their trumpets for change of timbre.
I have one. I am lucky. Mine has both the tone and plays in tune. Old Queenies don't have valve triggers, and so you have to pre-set the slides, especially the 3rd valve slide, to strike a balance of the intonation. Likewise, due to the small bore and large flare of the bell, all flugelhorns can have problems with intonation above top of the staff g. I have played several Queenies, and the others I played have this problem. It is exacerbated when a player tries to use too deep of a mouthpiece in search of the ultimate dark tone. All the aftermarket mouthpieces I tried on mine, including the superlative Curry mouthpieces of all three depths, caused the upper range to go intolerably flat. Your mileage will vary.
Queenies, in particular, seem to benefit from mouthpieces that are moderately deep. This gives a tad brighter tone than is the current fad, but also helps intonation and response. I have two actual Queenie mouthpieces to go with mine. One gives that ultimate piquant smoky tone for solos and ballads, while the other gives a little clearer tone that helps the horn match in ensemble. There is really nothing I can see that makes them different in any way: cup, rim, throat, etc., so it must be something in the hand-drilled backbore on each mouthpiece.
One final note (pun intended) Queenies and some others have a different receiver and mouthpiece shank profile. So whatever flugelhorn you get, get a matching shank mouthpiece (assuming the receiver is not worn or modified). Again, oversimplified here but explained better in other threads, there are three main receiver and mouthpiece shank tapers: Queenie, Yamaha, and Bach.
If it plays well, and you can get it for a good deal, go for it! You will be pleased.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet
Last edited by iiipopes on Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jhereg
New Member
Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Overland Park, KS
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | OK, I will get the flippant comment out of the way first: If we have to explain, you wouldn't understand. |
Yes, yes. I did say that I'm a trombonist.
"Smoky", interesting! And the information about mouthpieces is interesting too, and something I'll try to take into account.
Thank you for taking time to respond, I realize that it was a line of questioning that's "beneath" this forum and its members. But for things like this it's not like I can consult a catalog or even google. Thanks for letting me ask and learn.
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Megan O, BAC Music |
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iiipopes
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015
Posts: 548
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Nothing is "beneath," especially a sincere question. We all start somewhere. This is a good place to start. Glad to be of help. Others will chip in with their viewpoints, and broaden the discussion. That's why we are all here.
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King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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Jhereg
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Joined: 22 May 2017
Posts: 4
Location: Overland Park, KS
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Megan O, BAC Music |
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razeontherock
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Joined: 05 Jun 2004
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Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Great post, Pope! Amazing how much effect the backbore has ... |
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