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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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 Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: For those who can play a good high F or better. |
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First F's appeared in high school but they were random and unusable. Anything above a G on top of the staff was hit or miss. I know now that higher notes that appeared were because I happened to fall into the way my chops needed to be to get them but it was completely by accident - I had no understanding of what happened when they came out. Overall the mp never felt completely comfortable, never really felt like it fit or belonged on my lips.
| Quote: | | 3. How long after developing these notes did you start using them in concert? Either amateur or professional is okay. |
It took years and years from the first time an F, or for that matter a high C came out that I felt comfortable and confident they were going to be there. Required years of analysis and a complete reworking of the mechanics of how I play. I also had my teeth altered which helped a lot.
Stays within a range of maybe 4:30 - 4:00 give or take. Bell might go slightly higher - i.e. around 4 for below about low C, stays pretty constantly at about 4:30 for everything else.
| Quote: | | 7. Does playing on a dry lip setting assist your ability to play high notes? |
It assists my ability to not be able to play at all.
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead for high notes. While the Shew piece allows me to play to the bottom, if I want fuller bottom notes, I play something bigger.
| Quote: | | 9. Which lip dominates your mouthpiece? More upper, lower or equal? |
About 50/50.
| Quote: | | 10. Explain which method you used that helped develop your register. |
The analyze and experiment for years and years to have a functional embouchure method. No high-note method would have fixed the problems I had the way I was doing it once upon a time. Various teachers I had didn't have a clue how to help me. I'm of the notion that teachers who proclaim "don't think about it, just put it up and blow!" should be forever prohibited from taking money as a trumpet teacher. Or possibly be taken out and shot.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9027
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ridiculous. I almost always edit my posts avoiding re-posting the original post, unless it's relevant..
Disagree with me, if you like, but posting like that is just offensive.
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Lionel
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 783
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bach_again wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | p.s. this goes for all threads. Is there some reason why members cant spend
a moment editing posts instead of merely re-posting, with their new posts, the original (sometimes lengthy posts) posts over and over again? Sure garbages up subsequent posts. Thanks. |
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Speaking of "hypocrisy"? Lol. I was just about ready to make a request that we steer this conversation closer back to just answering the questions. And I still want to recommend this now too.
However I then listened to "Bach_Again's" selection of Chase's four trumpet interlude from "Get It On". Recorded 1970 on Epic Records. And it always blows my mind.
Thus I broke my own rules and started venturing away from the topic. Anyway...
In response to those who think I'm one of those "air support is all you need" cats? Anyone who knows me or has read a few of my posts ought to realize that Ive put a bloody ton of research into studying embouchure. So the notion that I promote an "air is everything" concept is wholly without merit. Especially when you consider all of the doggone mouthpieces Ive tried. That and modified myself...
But having said that?
There does seem to be a strong correlation between air support and consistency in lead playing. As I said,
About 4 years ago I took over the lead book in a good jazz big band. And once accepting this position? Did promise myself that I would force myself to maintain both good ol Maynard's air support directives and his stance. Going as far as to remember/memorize all elements of his video taken at the late 1970's Canadian stage band festival.
And after only a total of two weeks of serious, repetitive training? I found myself playing with far better endurance and confidence. The "Maynard stance" gave my back and foot position automatic chance to force more air pressure against the back pressure of the horn. I felt like a trumpet machine! No exaggeration.
I will still continue examining those physical aspects of embouchure usage the rest of my days. Yet I am grateful for those who emphasize the "air support is critical" concept.
Because as one of my most respected private lessons teachers told me,
"We always have a tendency to cut off the air when the chart gets tricky"... And he was correct! Sometimes a whole afternoom would go by and he wouldnt make even the smallest llittle blip of a mistake.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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bach_again
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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Posts: 2481
Location: Northern Ireland
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TKSop
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014
Posts: 1735
Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionel wrote: |
In response to those who think I'm one of those "air support is all you need" cats? Anyone who knows me or has read a few of my posts ought to realize that Ive put a bloody ton of research into studying embouchure. So the notion that I promote an "air is everything" concept is wholly without merit. Especially when you consider all of the doggone mouthpieces Ive tried. That and modified myself...
But having said that?
There does seem to be a strong correlation between air support and consistency in lead playing. As I said,
About 4 years ago I took over the lead book in a good jazz big band. And once accepting this position? Did promise myself that I would force myself to maintain both good ol Maynard's air support directives and his stance. Going as far as to remember/memorize all elements of his video taken at the late 1970's Canadian stage band festival.
And after only a total of two weeks of serious, repetitive training? I found myself playing with far better endurance and confidence. The "Maynard stance" gave my back and foot position automatic chance to force more air pressure against the back pressure of the horn. I felt like a trumpet machine! No exaggeration.
I will still continue examining those physical aspects of embouchure usage the rest of my days. Yet I am grateful for those who emphasize the "air support is critical" concept.
Because as one of my most respected private lessons teachers told me,
"We always have a tendency to cut off the air when the chart gets tricky"... And he was correct! Sometimes a whole afternoom would go by and he wouldnt make even the smallest llittle blip of a mistake. |
If that initial comment was directed towards me... I wasn't accusing you (or anyone else) of anything - simply stating that dogmatically holding to absolutes doesn't necessarily help everyone.
For many, focusing on more air and air support will work - for some, it can (and does) result in overblowing, overbreathing and in tension in the throat and upper chest (etc)... it all depends on what the player does and what "more air" translates to in that players mind.
For example - you might think you're using "more air" and "more support" and yet your output might be an exact match for the air velocity that Michael or I put out when we think we're using "less air" or "narrower airstream" or something like that.
Again, it doesn't matter which of us is thinking the right thing (or indeed, if we're all thinking the wrong thing), it matters that we DO the right thing.... I'm aware that Michael is a damned good player, and I'm not bad myself - if thinking "more air" is detrimental to us, it's probably fair to say that we're both in a position to judge that we shouldn't be thinking that.
That's not to say that if you're teaching, knowing the absolutes isn't important - it is... but it's important so that you can tell whether the student is doing it right. Whether they're thinking the same thing you think to get those results or whether they're thinking the exact opposite doesn't matter - the role of a good teacher is to ensure the student gets the results, not to insist that they all think about XYZ because that's what works for the teacher.
This is, fundamentally, the problem with trying to pick up too many absolutes and forming a "method" that can be blindly trusted and followed - we can see patterns of what tends to work for people, but there's only so far patterns get us (collectively), they're not prescriptive especially when the polar opposite beliefs can (and do) get results for some people.
Clearly you've discovered things that help you get the results you want - that's awesome.
...But... focusing on exactly the same things and thinking they're implementing the same things might result in a crash and burn for a different player... and this is precisely the problem with taking instruction online, without observation beforehand and without supervision afterward to ensure the right things have been implemented - trial and error can be slow and messy (especially if I/you/we lack godlike self-reflection and judgement). |
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cbtj51
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015
Posts: 725
Location: SE US
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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1. Yes and beyond to Double High C, though High Gs are about all that I am called upon to play with any regularity. High A does not exist for me.
2. I was a Euphonium player through Jr. High and High School and began playing Solo Soprano in a Drum and Bugle Corps at 13 yrs. old. High notes just worked for me almost right away. I attributed that fact to transitioning from the bigger/deeper Euphonium mouthpiece to the much narrower/ shallower Soprano Bugle/Trumpet Mouthpiece (I used a J. Parduba Double Cup back then) more than any other reason as far as I can recall.
3. I began using my high range flexibility immediately as far as I can remember, and really applied it once I started playing Trumpet as my main instrument in college, playing in Concert and Marching Band as Section Leader, as well as Jazz Ensemble, Brass Choir and Brass Quintet as a Lead or 1st Trumpet Player.
4. I played Lead Trumpet in a working Big Band, Latin Bands, R&B and Rock and Roll Bands using my range as a regular part of my work for many, many years.
5. My existing high range came during my youth as stated above and was all inclusive from the beginning of my Trumpet playing not as a gradual development, but as a group or cluster as far as I can remember.
6. A. My Trumpet is straight out or parallel to the floor in 3 o'clock position throughout the range of my horn. My posture however, is more of a bow shape when standing keeping my trumpet parallel to the floor and straight ahead from my face, again 3 o'clock.
7. I am a decidedly 'wet' player. I think this is natural for my playing, helping to form a better seal between lips and mouthpiece. I tend to be a bit more of a "pressure" player though not brutally so.
8. I have used a Bob Reeves 1S695 and later the 41S695 replacement equivalent throughout my playing career. I began using a Bob Reeves 41C694 when Classical and Brass Ensemble playing became my primary focus in the last few years. My range has not suffered at all after moving to the slightly deeper cup of the 41C, but my sound is much broader and somewhat darker which was the desired effect. I have used this mouthpiece very recently playing lead in a Jazz Ensemble still producing the sound that I strive for with no loss of range.
9.More Upper lip than lower.
10.Once I began playing Trumpet in college I used the Max Schlossberg Lip Flexibility daily as a part of my practice. Lip trills have been a part of my warm-up and warm down palate for more than 35 years. I feel that both of these practices have contributed greatly to my consistent range.
11. I have found that my ability to play the range of my trumpet consistently (Low F# up to and including Double High C) demands playing the entire range in my warm-up (if I need to play High Gs or whatever as a part of my gig, I need to include in my warm-up immediately before the gig). High A has been and still is my weak pitch since my youth no matter the horn, mouthpiece, fingering or practice. I can play it but it is very sharp no matter (may be a psychological limitation as pointed out by many of my associates).
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9027
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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bach again I'm talking about continuing to copy the same post ad naseum, not just copying a quote to help qualify what was being said. Somehow, though, I think you already knew that. Enough, though.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
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Benge 3X Trumpet
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