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Louis Dowdeswell


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trolarg
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S53pF32llU&t=0s

Ive been practicing range for the past week using claude Gordon's Systematic Approach and ive hit a G above High C which is insane (but that was just like once and it was really low so whatever) and I don't think I was doing to much effort or stress but my arms do start shaking and so does my abdomen so howwww!!!!???
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Larry Smithee
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S53pF32llU&t=0s

Ive been practicing range for the past week...


lol!
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

Simple.

No one ever told he he couldn't do that.
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trolarg
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

Simple.

No one ever told he he couldn't do that.



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TKSop
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Efficient, well balanced chops and air - it doesn't hurt that he's very clearly an upstreamer (they tend to have an easier time up there).

Unfortunately, that embouchure setting only really works for a small number of players who are naturally inclined to it - it's not something you can copy...

But what you can copy is an awful lot of practice and getting some good lessons to help you along the journey.

Best of luck!
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trolarg
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Efficient, well balanced chops and air - it doesn't hurt that he's very clearly an upstreamer (they tend to have an easier time up there).

Unfortunately, that embouchure setting only really works for a small number of players who are naturally inclined to it - it's not something you can copy...

But what you can copy is an awful lot of practice and getting some good lessons to help you along the journey.

Best of luck!


I already do that, I guess its just patience from now on hahaha
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trolarg wrote:
TKSop wrote:
Efficient, well balanced chops and air - it doesn't hurt that he's very clearly an upstreamer (they tend to have an easier time up there).

Unfortunately, that embouchure setting only really works for a small number of players who are naturally inclined to it - it's not something you can copy...

But what you can copy is an awful lot of practice and getting some good lessons to help you along the journey.

Best of luck!


I already do that, I guess its just patience from now on hahaha


Bingo - patience, enjoy what you can do and chip away at improvements... little by little it'll come
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

I wouldn't say it looks like nothing but a lot of it is that he was blessed with the right tools.

His strength seems to be high notes, I've never heard him do anything that I considered particularly technically impressive. I imagine he'd seem a lot more mortal trying to match Maynard's take on "Maynard Ferguson" or Doc's "Chimes Festival" or "A Song For You".
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deleted_user_680e93b
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:23 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

I wouldn't say it looks like nothing but a lot of it is that he was blessed with the right tools.

His strength seems to be high notes, I've never heard him do anything that I considered particularly technically impressive. I imagine he'd seem a lot more mortal trying to match Maynard's take on "Maynard Ferguson" or Doc's "Chimes Festival" or "A Song For You".


Hmmm, "not technically impressive", Hmmm. Are we listening to the same guy? He seems awfully darn impressive to me. Effortless, in tune and precise playing does that to me though. Different strokes for different folks i guess.

regards,

tom
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snichols
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

KRELL1960 wrote:
Robert P wrote:
trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

I wouldn't say it looks like nothing but a lot of it is that he was blessed with the right tools.

His strength seems to be high notes, I've never heard him do anything that I considered particularly technically impressive. I imagine he'd seem a lot more mortal trying to match Maynard's take on "Maynard Ferguson" or Doc's "Chimes Festival" or "A Song For You".


Hmmm, "not technically impressive", Hmmm. Are we listening to the same guy? He seems awfully darn impressive to me. Effortless, in tune and precise playing does that to me though. Different strokes for different folks i guess.

regards,

tom


I'll have to second Krell. Perhaps by "technically impressive" Robert means "fast". I'm also of the thought that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique. Perhaps it comes from the habit of a large number of musicians calling fast or articulated music "technical", instead of just calling it what it is.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

snichols wrote:
KRELL1960 wrote:
Robert P wrote:
trolarg wrote:
how in the hell can he reach such highnotes looking like its nothing?????

I wouldn't say it looks like nothing but a lot of it is that he was blessed with the right tools.

His strength seems to be high notes, I've never heard him do anything that I considered particularly technically impressive. I imagine he'd seem a lot more mortal trying to match Maynard's take on "Maynard Ferguson" or Doc's "Chimes Festival" or "A Song For You".


Hmmm, "not technically impressive", Hmmm. Are we listening to the same guy? He seems awfully darn impressive to me. Effortless, in tune and precise playing does that to me though. Different strokes for different folks i guess.

regards,

tom


I'll have to second Krell. Perhaps by "technically impressive" Robert means "fast". I'm also of the thought that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique. Perhaps it comes from the habit of a large number of musicians calling fast or articulated music "technical", instead of just calling it what it is.


Agreed - sure it's a very narrow specialisation, but so is playing lots of fast articulation and difficult music that goes up and down the staff a lot (but rarely much above it).
In the sense that technical means it relies on incredible technique, this is incredibly technical playing - it's just in a very narrow field of expertise (which is not to say that the play does or doesn't have technical skills in other senses).


I can't say I particularly enjoy listening to Louis either - but the reason for that is what makes it so impressive in the first place... frankly, I find his playing a bit cold and sterile (verging on computer generated - listen to one of his recordings with your eyes closed and picture sibelius playing across a computer screen and you might get what I mean) - the kind of consistency it takes to play like that is incredibly impressive, but it's not my taste to listen to.
It's mind blowing - but it's almost too impressive technically (as would be someone playing 5 minutes straight of nothing but multiple tonguing at incredible speed without missing a beat), if you know what I mean?
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

snichols wrote:
I'll have to second Krell. Perhaps by "technically impressive" Robert means "fast". I'm also of the thought that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique. Perhaps it comes from the habit of a large number of musicians calling fast or articulated music "technical", instead of just calling it what it is.

So if someone can't play material that requires a lot of technical facility - articulation, finger coordination etc. you give them a pass if they can play loud and high. Okee doke.

This chart goes up to a G. I'm of the notion that Louis couldn't match it if his life depended on it on any level - sound, power, technical command of the instrument. Nor could many of the high-note heroes a lot of people hyperventilate over.

If the only thing that matters to you is belting high notes under limited circumstances, okay. A lot of people feel the same way.


Link

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Justus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Efficient, well balanced chops and air - it doesn't hurt that he's very clearly an upstreamer (they tend to have an easier time up there).


Sorry, but he's definitely not an upstream player. You can see him very clearly doing the usual downstream pivot as he ascends in the video.

He appears to be tonguing through his teeth (plays with a relatively open jaw) and using his tongue very far forward. That combined with very relaxed corners is a quite common setup for proficient high note players.
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justus wrote:
TKSop wrote:
Efficient, well balanced chops and air - it doesn't hurt that he's very clearly an upstreamer (they tend to have an easier time up there).


Sorry, but he's definitely not an upstream player. You can see him very clearly doing the usual downstream pivot as he ascends in the video.

He appears to be tonguing through his teeth (plays with a relatively open jaw) and using his tongue very far forward. That combined with very relaxed corners is a quite common setup for proficient high note players.


With very rare exceptions (Cat Anderson), almost all upstreamers use the same pivot as a IIIB downstream (which is different from the IIIA downstream pivot - and downstreamers seem to split about 50/50 between the two).

Louis looks (and sounds) looks a cast iron IV to me...

But you don't need to take it from me:

Mr.Hollywood wrote:

This young man from England Louis Dowdesworth is one of the greatest examples of a perfect type IV since Bud Brisbois.


If Chris LaBarbera says he's a perfect type IV (ie: UPstream), thats about as indisputable as you'll get, IMHO.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I don't understand the criticism of Louis' playing. He is making very good music. I listen to all of the things he posts and really enjoy it musically. I know, different strokes for different folks, but that some music might not appeal to you isn't necessarily a reflection on the artist's technical ability.

Not every piece of music needs to be showcase of virtuoso technique.

Not every virtuoso performance is musically satisfying. In fact, some performances suffer musically due to the performer's desire to display some aspect of his technical prowess.

Furthermore, it is a smart thing to play to one's strengths. Everyone but the most foolhardy among us do this.

The criticism sort of reminds me of the things trumpet players say about Herb Alpert. He made music that was wildly popular (compared to other trumpet artists), but trumpet players obsess over what he didn't do technically, instead of over what he did do. By the way, what he did do greatly increased the popularity of the trumpet as an instrument - something that benefits the trumpet playing community in general.

Anyway, Mr. Dowdeswell, keep doing what you are doing. Your music makes life on planet earth a little bit better.

Regards,
Grits
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Justus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't aware that there was an upstream type with a downward pivot. I thought upstream players were necessarily using upward pivots to ascend. Thanks for the info!

I do believe though that him (potentially) tonguing through his teeth while maintaining very relaxed corners also has something to do with his incredible chops. And that is something that not only Type IV players can do!
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
Hmm, I don't understand the criticism of Louis' playing.

My point isn't so much with his playing for what it is, it's more my consternation with people's fixation with high notes above all else - which is only further reinforced by those who've chimed in about how great he is and not offering any examples of him playing something that demonstrates a strong command of anything but playing high. Saying playing loud and high in of itself is a demonstration of "technical facility" is straight up bellshet. Would someone like to make the case that notorious a-clown KT is a technically strong player?

The answer to the OP's original, overly in-awe question is "because he was born with physical characteristics that make it easy for him. If you happened to have been born with his setup it would be easy for you too."
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snichols
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:25 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
snichols wrote:
I'll have to second Krell. Perhaps by "technically impressive" Robert means "fast". I'm also of the thought that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique. Perhaps it comes from the habit of a large number of musicians calling fast or articulated music "technical", instead of just calling it what it is.

So if someone can't play material that requires a lot of technical facility - articulation, finger coordination etc. you give them a pass if they can play loud and high. Okee doke.

This chart goes up to a G. I'm of the notion that Louis couldn't match it if his life depended on it on any level - sound, power, technical command of the instrument. Nor could many of the high-note heroes a lot of people hyperventilate over.

If the only thing that matters to you is belting high notes under limited circumstances, okay. A lot of people feel the same way.


Where did I say any of that? Seems like you're putting a lot of words in my mouth (or onto my keyboard, I suppose). My entire post was about word choice and that we were assuming you meant fast playing when you said technical. As a way of differentiating the two and clarifying what I think qualifies as "technique", I said that I still think that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique. A lot of aspects of playing fall under the umbrella of "technique": upper register, tone production, fast playing, articulation, flexibility, fingering, etc. Also, what am I supposedly giving him a "pass" on? Am I his teacher or something, and it's my job to make sure he's up to snuff on all of his technique? He doesn't answer to any of us here, so he doesn't need a "pass" from anyone.

I'm also with Grits, I don't see why the speculative attack on Louis's playing ability is necessary. There's always this person when a high note player is being discussed:
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: Louis Dowdeswell Reply with quote

snichols wrote:
I'm also with Grits, I don't see why the speculative attack on Louis's playing ability is necessary.

The issue is with your and others' over-valuing and mischaracterizing one particular aspect of playing.


Quote:
Where did I say any of that?


What else do you mean by:

I'm also of the thought that a strong command of the extreme upper register is an impressive display of technique.

You're trying to categorize someone as technically proficient because of one aspect of their playing.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mountain, meet mole hill.

And thus, another TH thread goes to hell in a handbasket.
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