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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:15 am Post subject: V-cup rounded rim for lead?? |
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Hi again!
Been fancying the idea that a lead piece with V cup might be something for me but I haven´t found one yet. One reason is my cornet mpc has a V cup, 16,25 diam well rounded, not that wide rim either. Been using this since late spring last year and can happily state that "by George, I think I´ve got it".
I am very satisfied with this piece hence the idea that a piece like that would come in hand (lip) when I try to fill that leadchair.
Any suggestions?
ps going on a trip tomorrow so maybe some ideas have gathered til I return
(in 12 days)
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)
Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MrOlds
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 724
Location: California
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Locutus2k
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Old Giardinelli V cups, your size of choice, with screw rim (choose standard, round, flat). Ask Jim New he should be able to make a copy.
_________________
------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:17 am Post subject: |
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The CG Personal has a fairly rounded rim and a Modified V-cup, but it is pretty deep to be playing lead on (though Carl Leach, Jr. screamed on it when playing lead at the Flamingo Hotel in Vegas through the 1980's).
Jim New and I worked together back around 1999 to create two slightly shallower (but still V-cup) versions of the CG Personal, the Mohan 7MV and the Mohan 7SV. Both can be seen and compared to other mouthpieces on the Kanstul Comparator: http://kanstul.com/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
You can order one through Kanstul, and I think it's also possible that Jim New could make either of them for you.
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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hackney_wick
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2012
Posts: 312
Location: Gone away
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| Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Delete
Last edited by hackney_wick on Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | The CG Personal has a fairly rounded rim and a Modified V-cup, but it is pretty deep to be playing lead on (though Carl Leach, Jr. screamed on it when playing lead at the Flamingo Hotel in Vegas through the 1980's).
Jim New and I worked together back around 1999 to create two slightly shallower (but still V-cup) versions of the CG Personal, the Mohan 7MV and the Mohan 7SV. Both can be seen and compared to other mouthpieces on the Kanstul Comparator: http://kanstul.com/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
You can order one through Kanstul, and I think it's also possible that Jim New could make either of them for you.
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested |
hi! I ended up in a place with wi fi so I'm back again. Interesting suggestions you' ve all come up with. Mr Mohan - which one of the two pieces with your name might be suitable for lead +the diameter??Since I live in Sweden I have good access to the Thomann.de who delivers with lightning speed +'the possibility to test so I might as well ( in august) try some suggested Storks too +some Patricks as well. Maybe even Giardinelli.
Oh this never ending safari  But If thou search you will find 
Thanks a lot for your efforts!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Seymor B Fudd wrote: | | John Mohan wrote: | The CG Personal has a fairly rounded rim and a Modified V-cup, but it is pretty deep to be playing lead on (though Carl Leach, Jr. screamed on it when playing lead at the Flamingo Hotel in Vegas through the 1980's).
Jim New and I worked together back around 1999 to create two slightly shallower (but still V-cup) versions of the CG Personal, the Mohan 7MV and the Mohan 7SV. Both can be seen and compared to other mouthpieces on the Kanstul Comparator: http://kanstul.com/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
You can order one through Kanstul, and I think it's also possible that Jim New could make either of them for you.
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested |
hi! I ended up in a place with wi fi so I'm back again. Interesting suggestions you' ve all come up with. Mr Mohan - which one of the two pieces with your name might be suitable for lead +the diameter??Since I live in Sweden I have good access to the Thomann.de who delivers with lightning speed +'the possibility to test so I might as well ( in august) try some suggested Storks too +some Patricks as well. Maybe even Giardinelli.
Oh this never ending safari But If thou search you will find
Thanks a lot for your efforts! |
By the way - any ideas on the advantages/disadvantages with V - cup mouthpieces??
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Locutus2k
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 635
Location: Rome, Italy
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:40 am Post subject: |
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| Seymor B Fudd wrote: |
By the way - any ideas on the advantages/disadvantages with V - cup mouthpieces?? |
From my (limited) experience V cups "soften" the tone and attacks on deep and medium to large cups. In smaller sizes and with shallower cups they facilitate the velocity in high register but you lose some "sparkle" in the attacks as well.
Well ... there are thousands of variants unfortunately the only thing you can do is try first hand and see what happen on your chops. 
To hear a real Master on v-cups pick any Clark Terry record on trumpet, he used to play Giardinelli v-cups all of his life (size between a 7-10 Bach, flat rim and medium shallow cup). Giardinelli used to sell a CT model too!
_________________
------------------------
Edwards X-13
Lawler TL5 Balanced 30th Anniversary (#2 of 5)
Lawler TL5 L bore
Bach NY Special edition 2008
Flugel Van Laar Oiram Ack
Mark Curry mouthpieces
------------------------ |
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JVL
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 894
Location: Nissa, France
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| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Hello Seymor
So, you'd like to stayl with a 16.25mm ID.
But about cup shape or style, it'll depend also on the depth you want...which one(s) would you consider being ok to you for lead? C, D, E Bach style cup depth?
You have to consider greatly this parameter, that would change a lot your sensations and playing...
Best |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Locutus2k wrote: | | Seymor B Fudd wrote: |
By the way - any ideas on the advantages/disadvantages with V - cup mouthpieces?? |
From my (limited) experience V cups "soften" the tone and attacks on deep and medium to large cups. In smaller sizes and with shallower cups they facilitate the velocity in high register but you lose some "sparkle" in the attacks as well.
Well ... there are thousands of variants unfortunately the only thing you can do is try first hand and see what happen on your chops.
To hear a real Master on v-cups pick any Clark Terry record on trumpet, he used to play Giardinelli v-cups all of his life (size between a 7-10 Bach, flat rim and medium shallow cup). Giardinelli used to sell a CT model too! |
As my new trumpet, Bach 1B commercial is rather bright at least with me behind it, a V - cup might deliver a nice sound, even sparkle. Good to know - thanks. I'll try to listen to Clark Terry (in no way comparing myself, just to get some hints).
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:28 am Post subject: |
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An update: The Stork mouthpieces were easy to get hold of so now I´m testing Stork Studio Master VMS6 meaning 16,25 mm diam, semirounded rim, medium shallow V -cup, backbore large bore #27. More mpc:s are on the way, 16,25; variations on the VMS6; (16,18 was too cramped).
And the result is?: Ain´t that a difference  . Suddenly I´ve got an E that´s getting more and more solid, the tone is big, warm - far from the shrill notes I produced with say Schilke 14A4, switching between cornet (deep W cup DW Ultra 7C) and trumpet no longer same problem; it is as if C cup trumpet mpc and V-cup cornet mpc in some mysterious way just didn´t match. Every time a certain transitional difficulty, the one hampering the other.
So far this is a sheer miracle! But I´ll test variations of this mpc.
Eventually I´ll be able to give a verdict of my (potential) progress.
Thanks a lot Mr Olds!! You may have helped provide me with my Holy Grail!
And - maybe you guys&dolls might have some views on this?? If so please share them! Specifically what might happen with your chops if you use mpc:s with so different characteristics as C-cup versus V-cup.
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I just got a Jim New v cup MF style made up on a Buddy x5 rim and I love it. It’s narrow at .590 but it has great sound. I’m not a hi player but I am loving it it’s called his Buddy MF. Call him, lush sound and very fast so far. New on the piece but immediate hit, and I don’t chase MPs .
Rod |
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MrOlds
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Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 724
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Glad you’ve found a solution. I’ve enjoyed playing Stork pieces for many years. But oddly only certain ones work for me. It’s all trial and error I guess. |
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homebilly
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Joined: 24 Dec 2010
Posts: 2197
Location: Venice, CA & Paris, France
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| Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I want a flying V
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ron meza (deadbeat jazz musician) & (TH 5 post ghost neighborhood watch ringleader)
waiting for Fed-Ex to deliver a $50 trumpet to my door. shipping was prepaid by seller of course!
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delano
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 1469
Location: Sweden
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| MrOlds wrote: | | Glad you’ve found a solution. I’ve enjoyed playing Stork pieces for many years. But oddly only certain ones work for me. It’s all trial and error I guess. |
yes ain´t that a mystery? For my specific lips this StudioMaster was perfect - don´t really know how to express my gratitude for your suggestion. Safari terminated problems solved, lead chair not that rickety any longer, confidence has grown, you name it. And with Lionels suggestion I now practice exclusively on trumpet + this Stork - to my amazement enhancing my cornet work .
During periods I have doubted that a mouthpiece could make all that difference - different tonal qualities oh yes but - now I´m convinced - at least valid for me.
Then, again, I am a curious guy so why! Rim as my Wick, V cup as my Wick (but not altogether V), large bore as the Wick - an ocular examination reveals certain differences with regards to the cup and of course its shallow in comparison.
But - wonderful. Finally, after all this years.
Probably an unlimited number of Holy Grails out there.
By the way, This V Stork only has to reach my chimney, gently flapping. No need for rocket science!
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Rod Haney
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015
Posts: 937
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Rod Haney wrote: | Hi,
I just got a Jim New v cup MF style made up on a Buddy x5 rim and I love it. It’s narrow at .590 but it has great sound. I’m not a hi player but I am loving it it’s called his Buddy MF. Call him, lush sound and very fast so far. New on the piece but immediate hit, and I don’t chase MPs .
Rod |
Talked to Jim today and he said he blended the Buddy cup down a bit before starting the V. That must be why I feel no difference. Second hard day in and still nothing but good. Did Iorns today and Colin Corners and found a little more control with a bit less effort holding the higher notes. I really cant feel any difference on lips. Jim said the V cup helped ‘create’ greater air speed and some other stuff I dont know enough about to Repeat, but its a gem for me and I ain’t looking back.
Rod |
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