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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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 Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:24 pm Post subject: If you had a Reynolds ERA and decent range, verdict? |
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What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype?
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bike&ed
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| I had an ERA and the Olds equivalent to it, just hype, though the horns are quite fun to play... |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| bike&ed wrote: | | I had an ERA and the Olds equivalent to it, just hype, though the horns are quite fun to play... |
So you feel they're a decent horn but the range-aiding claims are hooey.
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | | I had an ERA and the Olds equivalent to it, just hype, though the horns are quite fun to play... |
So you feel they're a decent horn but the range-aiding claims are hooey. |
No different than any other supposedly "range adding" type of horn (Wild Thing, S42, Callet, Calicchio, etc etc etc). I recall them being easy to play, free-blowing, and certainly easier to stay in the upper register than your average Bach 37/Xeno/etc. However, I've never played any trumpet that actually added notes up top. |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | So you feel they're a decent horn but the range-aiding claims are hooey. |
| bike&ed wrote: | | No different than any other supposedly "range adding" type of horn (Wild Thing, S42, Callet, Calicchio, etc etc etc). I recall them being easy to play, free-blowing, and certainly easier to stay in the upper register than your average Bach 37/Xeno/etc. However, I've never played any trumpet that actually added notes up top. |
....because it doesn't exist. If a trumpet was designed that made the upper register more accessible and increased one's top end - we'd all know about that horn. It wouldn't be a secret. All those lead players would own one. There's no cheat to having a good upper register and there's no magic bullet.
A good business plan is always: Trumpet Product + claim with increase range = profit.
Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread.
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Croquethed
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Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Oakville, CT
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| Next you'll tell me PF Flyers don't help me run faster and jump higher. |
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bike&ed
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | So you feel they're a decent horn but the range-aiding claims are hooey. |
| bike&ed wrote: | | No different than any other supposedly "range adding" type of horn (Wild Thing, S42, Callet, Calicchio, etc etc etc). I recall them being easy to play, free-blowing, and certainly easier to stay in the upper register than your average Bach 37/Xeno/etc. However, I've never played any trumpet that actually added notes up top. |
....because it doesn't exist. If a trumpet was designed that made the upper register more accessible and increased one's top end - we'd all know about that horn. It wouldn't be a secret. All those lead players would own one. There's no cheat to having a good upper register and there's no magic bullet.
A good business plan is always: Trumpet Product + claim with increase range = profit.
Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
Man is this ever true. If I had put in intelligent practice time instead of buying & selling hundreds of different trumpets over the past 20 years or so, I would be in a very different place... |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| bike&ed wrote: | | Robert P wrote: | | bike&ed wrote: | | I had an ERA and the Olds equivalent to it, just hype, though the horns are quite fun to play... |
So you feel they're a decent horn but the range-aiding claims are hooey. |
No different than any other supposedly "range adding" type of horn (Wild Thing, S42, Callet, Calicchio, etc etc etc). I recall them being easy to play, free-blowing, and certainly easier to stay in the upper register than your average Bach 37/Xeno/etc. However, I've never played any trumpet that actually added notes up top. |
Giving the ad a closer look that actually sounds in line with the ad copy - the claims were more that it made it easier, not specifically that it gave you more range.
I would say my Getzen Eterna is nicer to play high than my King Silver Flair.
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
Did you intend for that to sound insulting?
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
| Robert P wrote: | | Did you intend for that to sound insulting? |
No, just as a statement of fact. After all, this was your initial post:
| Robert P wrote: | | What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype? |
(my bold)
You're hardly the first to post such a question. You won't be the last either. I'm sure something else will come up in a week or a few days.
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
| Robert P wrote: | | Did you intend for that to sound insulting? |
No, just as a statement of fact. After all, this was your initial post:
| Robert P wrote: | | What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype? |
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"Magic fix" is clearly pejorative. I assume you don't use a Bach 1C or whatever large symphonic style mp for all playing. So you must be one of those players looking for a "magic fix".
Pro mechanics use air tools because it's faster and easier. Using a tool that facilitates a particular desired result is just common sense.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | Crazy Finn wrote: | | Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
| Robert P wrote: | | Did you intend for that to sound insulting? |
No, just as a statement of fact. After all, this was your initial post:
| Robert P wrote: | | What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype? |
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"Magic fix" is clearly pejorative. I assume you don't use a Bach 1C or whatever large symphonic style mp for all playing. So you must be one of those players looking for a "magic fix".
Pro mechanics use air tools because it's faster and easier. Using a tool that facilitates a particular desired result is just common sense. |
"Magic Fix" is clearly an accurate description.
Expecting a trumpet to give you more range is like a mechanic switching to an air tool because the socket doesn't fit the nut.
Yes, if you have the range and you switch to an instrument that plays well in the upper register, it is like switching from a rachet wrench to an impact wrench. |
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Robert P
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Expecting a trumpet to give you more range is like a mechanic switching to an air tool because the socket doesn't fit the nut. |
Baloney - using a particular horn that favors the upper register would be no different than using a particular mp to facilitate the upper register.
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | Expecting a trumpet to give you more range is like a mechanic switching to an air tool because the socket doesn't fit the nut. |
Baloney - using a particular horn that favors the upper register would be no different than using a particular mp to facilitate the upper register. |
Bingo! You finally got it. While one doesn't get any extra range, playing in the upper range becomes easier. |
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ljazztrm
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Joined: 03 Dec 2001
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Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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If you switch from a poorly made trumpet to a well made trumpet, it's probable you will experience a range, sound, and endurance increase. I consider myself lucky to live in such a time where there are so many great trumpets around - just check out the 'horn' forum - new lines are coming out all the time it seems like. Look at all these great horns!
http://austincustombrass.mybigcommerce.com/
http://carolbrass.com/index.php?lan=zh-en&translate=0
http://stomvi-usa.com/shop/vrii-bb-trumpet-2/
Mouthpiece choice can definitely have an effect on range. You want to have a rim contour and size that fits your chops and a cup depth and right backbore to fit the volume of the music you are playing. Sure, there are players who can pick up any size mouthpiece from a Schilke 24 to a Warburton Chad Shoopman model and play a double C.. but for how long? 5 minutes? If you are a working trumpet player, playing every day and doing hard blowing gigs, it's very likely you won't last long on a mouthpiece that doesn't fit your chops and with a cup depth/backbore combo that doesn't fit the type of work you're doing. So many players could save so much time just by educating themselves a little bit from this site:
http://storkcustom.com/doctor-mouthpiece/
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Crazy Finn
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Maybe it doesn't always work, but there's always trumpet players out there looking for the magic fix - as evidenced by this thread. |
| Robert P wrote: | | Did you intend for that to sound insulting? |
| Crazy Finn wrote: | No, just as a statement of fact. After all, this was your initial post:
| Robert P wrote: | | What's the verdict - did it extend your range or was it just hype? |
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| Robert P wrote: | | "Magic fix" is clearly pejorative. I assume you don't use a Bach 1C or whatever large symphonic style mp for all playing. So you must be one of those players looking for a "magic fix". |
Actually, I do most of my playing on a 1C, right now. It doesn't facilitate my upper register very much, but I don't expect it to. If I had to do that stuff more, I'd use a different mouthpiece and put more time on working on my range.
I'm not looking for a magic fix, because there aren't any. Sure, the right mouthpiece can help a little, as can the right trumpet some small amount, but the main thing is who is playing the horn.
I suggested that lots of people are looking for horns/mouthpieces/technique that help playing in the upper register - (whether that should be called that a "magic fix" or whatever) and also pointed out that you started a thread on this very topic as evidence of this. If you want to be offended by that, that's up to you.
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Bflatman
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Robert P I think it is you who are being slightly insulting to some excellent members who answered your question honestly and reasonably.
You asked a question that many have asked before, not an unreasonable question it must be said, and you got a few answers all of which were perfectly reasonable and none of which were in any way insulting, it seems you didnt like the answers.
It could be said that the question was a poor one, like the questions, Which running shoes make me run faster, or Which car will make me win the Indy. Asking if a trumpet will give a higher range is in effect asking where one might find a unicorn.
There will never be any equipment that makes you a better performer. We have practice and teachers to do that, and wanting to buy high notes by changing gear is in fact being lazy and insulting those teachers who have spent many years learning exactly how you can get high notes and are willing to teach you how to do it for less than the price of that trumpet.
Which is better, spend 3000 dollars on a trumpet that gives you high notes which by the way doesnt exist, but if you lose that mythical trumpet you lose those high notes, or spend those 3000 dollars on lessons and learn how to get those same high notes and more on any trumpet you pick up.
I see about me a breed of players who value screaming out high notes without any attempt or desire to make music and it appalls me.
Many players seem to spend years and a great deal of effort changing equipment in a search for high notes and better playing and get nowhere and make no progress at all, whereas if they had instead spent all that time and effort on practice they would have got those higher notes and better playing, but they entirely wasted their time. |
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | | Sure, the right mouthpiece can help a little |
Sure, play the lead book with demanding charts on a 1C and tell us how that works out. It's not a magic fix, it's an aid that's in accordance with physics.
| Quote: | | I suggested that lots of people are looking for horns/mouthpieces/technique that help playing in the upper register - (whether that should be called that a "magic fix" or whatever) |
Or whatever? You said it. Certain mp's and horns *do* help.
| Quote: | | and also pointed out that you started a thread on this very topic as evidence of this. If you want to be offended by that, that's up to you. |
You didn't pay attention to the whole question. It wasn't "if you have trouble playing higher than a G on the staff will a Reynolds ERA give you range?" It started with the premise that you already have decent range.
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King Silver Flair
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Bundy
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Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
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Robert P
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Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 2596
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Bflatman wrote: | | Robert P I think it is you who are being slightly insulting to some excellent members who answered your question honestly and reasonably. |
I called someone on their interjection of pejorative language in support of an invalid assertion.
| Quote: | | Many players seem to spend years and a great deal of effort changing equipment in a search for high notes and better playing and get nowhere and make no progress at all |
Right, like that slacker gear junkie Doc - never got anywhere on the horn.
If there's any mp or horn you prefer to any other for playing higher everything you wrote is invalidated.
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Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12662
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Robert P wrote: | | Right, like that slacker gear junkie Doc - never got anywhere on the horn. |
The perfect example that proves there is no magic bullet. If there was he wouldn't still be on his Quixotesque safari.
It is clear he believes his perfect horn is out there, but is still searching. It would be interesting to understand what Doc is looking for. |
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