"Collectable" types of trumpets

[gordon.cooke]

I've seen several list of "most collectible trumpets", whether its top 10, or 5, or whatever. Conn 22B, Martin Committee, Olds Ambassador etc. And I agree these are top in terms of people seeking them.

So I wanted to take a different approach. I want to build a collection that shows the "types" or "varieties" of trumpet- what would they be? And maybe it would make more sense to consider "soprano brass" and include both cornets and trumpets as variations of the same (I'll leave that for debate)

What made me think of this was considering the modern trumpet design (I forget- does it originate with Besson or Bach?) as opposed to a 1920s peashooter with its smaller bell and tighter bends. So we may have a something like:

modern trumpet
peashooter trumpet
shepherds crook cornet
cornet (not shepherds crook)
pocket trumpet
rotary valve trumpet

Ideas for what else? Of course - then there are things like the Conn 3B new wonder with its little valve to change the key of the horn. Or a reverse lead pipe design. etc. When would these be considered oddities, or which should be "on the list", or perhaps an extended list to grow a collection further? As you can see, Im avoiding the idea of being tied to a specific maker or model- rather looking for big design features that set them apart (as opposed to a few hundredths difference in bore diameter) . You could grow this list to every conceivable variation- but what would be the essentials (top 10)? And time is consideration - just 20th century bounds it to the 3 valve design, but opening up the 19th century brings in saxhorns and such and going further back you go natural trumpet..... and you can really get lost.

As a side example (a different kind of example) I have been working on building a collection of the evolution of "bugles" used in American Drum and Bugle Corps. (put aside the issue most are technically trumpets)
* M1894 "Trench" Bugle (spec 1152)
* M1892 Field Trumpet
* One valve G-D bugle
* One valve G-D bugle with slip slide
* G-D bugle with add on F# (or F) attachment
* Piston Rotor bugle G-F-F#
* two valve bugle in G
* three valve bugle in G
That's the essential progression, and then you could add on variation like different designs for how the rotor was operated, or the single valve being vertical instead of horizontal.

Just some mental fun to discuss.

[Halflip]

Rather than try to collect a variety of trumpet "types", I have tried to acquire horns with a variety of bell materials and also horns with unconventional "wraps". Besides the usual brass, I have some horns with solid copper or solid silver bells (if I could afford them, I'd love to acquire a Cashel Crystal Bell trumpet or a daCarbo trumpet with a carbon fiber bell). With respect to unconventional wraps, I have a York Airflow trumpet and cornet, a DeNicola Puje, a Reynolds Emperor flugelhorn (Martin-style wrap), a 30's Buescher flugelhorn, a Finke kuhlohorn, a Reynolds Contempora cornet with an 'underslung' wrap, two pocket cornets and a pocket trumpet (one being a custom-made horn with a wrap that encircles the valve block several times and an oval bell), a custom-made circular flugelhorn with Vienna valves, and a 1908 York shepherd's crook trumpet. I also have some examples of unique technology, like a York Feather Touch Master cornet.

Of course, I also have a number of the typical 'desirables', but it's nice to go beyond that to other thematic drivers when building a collection.

[Andy Del]

A personal collection is just that, personal. So there is no right or wrong, just what intrigues you.

A good friend of mine's collection is focused on historical instruments. Working ones. It's an amazing collection, with good provenence for many of the instruments.

My motley collection is more about modern working instruments, with a focus on open blowing horns. Typically, there is not one Bach or Yamaha in there...


cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[Halflip]

[cyber_shake]

Interesting but difficult subject in my mind. You can collect to have a collection. You can collect to identify and keep different horns that you prefer and will play in different circumstances. You can collect to think you will someday build your retirement account from selling them (I would suggest every other retirement option before doing this). You can collect to start a museum. Unless you simply have too much money sitting around and you have nothing better you need to spend it on, I can't imagine building a collection to sit in cases at your house and never be used ... just to say you have the top 10 peashooter trumpets of all time or the biggest collection of bugles in the world. Many of us have a problem with N+1, always wanting another horn ... I've been there and lived in that realm for years. The problem with a 'top 10' is that every player, pro or not, would give you a different 'top 10'. I applaud you for trying to amass a collection, but finding true definition in this task is going to be hard. Have fun and collect what you like ... there is a world full of really cool axes! I look forward to reading how you ultimately define your search and procurement.
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Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com

Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S

[Halflip]

I collect for reasons no one can imagine, so to those of you who say, "I can't imagine why you collect", I can only reply, "You're right!"

[gordon.cooke]

Thanks all for the comments. A lot here I agree with. Yes, my biggest reason for collecting is because I enjoy playing different horns- so I always look for something playable or repairable to that point (not necessarily perfect though). I guess the bugle example might show what Im getting at. American Drum Corps is an area Im familiar with so I had an interest in the progression from no valves to present day. And it made a nice closed set of horn types- and I just wanted an example of each without much regard to particular brand or model. And having a list helps give direction into what to look for next and what not to get another of.

For me its a lot of fun to play each because of their differences. At this point I have also found some interesting variations - like a rotor that just has a little peg on it and you turn it instead of a nice lever to push. It was neat to acquire it and try it out. But I am of the mind to sell it rather than keep it- but I got to see it and experience it. (I'll stop before I totally geek out about bugles)

I recently came into possession of a stencil peashooter for the first time. And playing it was kind of an "a-ha" moment about it be interesting and different too. So I wondered what other variations are there on the instrument that would also be a very different experience. Which prompts the original post- perhaps because I have no idea what other options there are to look for (although a lot of little variations show up on ebay's Vintage Brass section) Maybe its just not really possible to say 'here are the 8 or 10 key variations of a trumpet' to go find examples of.

I think I have decided it wont be possible to fend off the N+1 syndrome (they are just too much fun), but I think I may be able to pair it with a healthy dose of N-1 and get to experience more fun horns (my first actual sale will go through tonight). Seems there was just a ton of innovation and experimentation in the early 20th century. Also, I tend to work in the sub $200 range so kicking the tires may be a bit more practical. No mint condition NY Bach's or Xeno's here.

[p76]

People do collect for different reasons. I have collected in the past just to see how certain horns play.

It has been an educative process for me, as I now know what types of horn suit my playing, what types I tend not to get on with, and the types I need in my "quiver" to do what I want.

So my N+1 desire has reduced over the years, and as I look at my current collection, I think I could fairly happily part with the YTR732, and the Selmer Radial (glorious horn, just don't play it enough).

The Kanstul 1001 and the YTR634 are my go-to horns for trumpet work, and the 700 is a great back-up and works well in an orchestral setting, which I occasionally need to do (also, the only ever horn I've bought new!).

As for cornets, nothing could ever induce me to part with my A6 Ambassador, what a horn! The Besson is a good back up, but would happily move on my long Ambassador - good horn, but again don't play it.

I guess I'd keep the 1525, but truth be told I bought that because the price was too good to be true, and I think I could trade that for a "lesser" Flugel given how little I play flugel.

The 641 is a good little C trumpet so I'd hang on to that.

Hopfully heading to the big smoke next week to try out some horns, so the N+1 could come back with a vengeance...

Cheers,
Roger
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Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[rockford]

My personal trumpet collection's goal is to have representative instruments from each of Vincent Bach's various design periods and representative samples of each of his models (Stradivarius, Mercedes, Minerva, Apollo). It took a long time to bag a Minerva and I'm still looking for an Apollo bugle or trumpet. It's a little treasure hunt. Anyway, I think you should have fun with it and adjust your focus as your interests evolve.
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Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190.

[GeorgeB]

Although I have three horns, I am not a collector. When I acquire a horn it is because I want to play it. An example of this is my 1952 Selmer Paris 21 Bb Trumpet. In 1955 I had to put my Conn 28B in for service and was given the exact Selmer model mentioned earlier as a loaner. I remembered how much I loved the sound but in those days I couldn't afford to buy it. I lucked on one last year, and believe me, it gets a lot of play. The only difference from the one I own now is that it is silver plated rather than the gold loaner.
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GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet

[J. Landress Brass]

I have a rather large collection of instruments and families I collect. My primary focus is Besson instruments of which my collection consists of 71 instruments ranging from 1843 to the 1940's. My main interest is collecting early examples and unique configurations resulting in the evolution of our current brass instruments. Many of the instruments in my Besson collection are in poor condition waiting for me to restore, and even trashed have value to me for historic reasons and would not part with them easily.

I also collect the Courtois family and Vincent Bach stuff. Being in NYC my connection to Bach and Bach history is pretty abundant with many people having early Bach instruments and stories. My collection includes Appolo, Minevra, early Strads, and even one of Vincent's French Horns. I have parts cabinets and even some hand tools from Bach's 2nd address.
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Josh Landress
J. Landress Brass, LLC.
38 West 32nd Street, STE 908, NY, NY 10001
646-922-7126
www.jlandressbrass.com

[Dale Proctor]

For sheer variety, cornets are where the fun is. All sorts of interesting wraps over the years, not like new cornets today where there are mainly two styles available (other than boutique instruments) - "American" wrap and shepherd's crook.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[scottfsmith]

I'm a "follow your nose" collector. I was a trombone player/collector and was selling some old trombones and in a spur of the moment decision decided to take a Conn slide cornet in trade. That was fun so I bought an old beater valved Conn cornet. Well, playing that was a LOT of fun so I read up on cornets and got some old Boston, Meredith, Besson, and Courtois, and decided I really preferred the Courtois cornets and have put many playing hours on them. Then I bought an old Courtois trumpet and thought, hey this is really good too! And then I bought a few more old Courtois trumpets. One of my Courtois trumpets is from around 1895, its one of the oldest known modern French-style trumpets and has a really unique sound and feel.

Story to be continued..

[gordon.cooke]

[lgt0412]

I am sitting at about 18 currently. The reason I collect is just because I love the trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn. I love getting ready to go to a rehearsal or gig and saying "which horn do I wanna play today?!" The specific horns I have collected are basically instruments I have been lucky enough to have a chance to buy, at a price could afford .... a price I thought was fair, and worth "collecting". The only new instruments that I paid retail prices for are my WB Kanstul, Yamaha Z flugel, and Mariachi Bach. All others were good (or GREAT) deals for good horns. I also collect related items such as valve oils, mutes, mouthpieces etc.
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Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces

[frankcameraska]

I have a smell collection but have a clear idea having concentrated on:

Trumpets: Connstellation / Martin Committee and their "clones" (by adams kanstul lawler..)

Fluegels : Couesnon and it's clones (kanstul / new Couesnon and others to come)

It's just a way of "limiting" the field ...
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Bach NY - Adams A5

Bach 3C / Artisan 3C

[frankcameraska]

Sorry
Have a smAll collection not a smEll collection ! 😀
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Bach NY - Adams A5

Bach 3C / Artisan 3C

[dcjway]

I had a room full of horns at one time just because at the time I could. 2 Martin Handcraft Committees, 4 post war Martin Committees, a 1927 Large Bore Martin Handcraft Symphony (wish I still had), large bore Chicago Benge #1599, large bore Burbank Benge #1705, New York Bachs from 1926, 1940 and 1943, several Blessing Super Artist (under rated IMO) several Olds Recording, Super Recording, and Mendez and the list goes on. They came and went, some stayed longer then others, I guess I just wanted to try all I could, I sent them on hopefully to be played. Today besides the 3 listed below I have an old Holton/Clarke cornet, a 1947 Blessing Super Artist, a 1947 Martin Committee cornet and a EMO World (unknown year, a clone of the Selmer Balanced) same type of horn Louis Armstrong played on a tour of Australia. Needless to say you will have to have some money if you want to collect, today I just want to play.
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Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate

[Dale Proctor]

[trumpetera]