Able to Lip Buzz but can"t Mouthpiece buzz a Round soun

[Tyler Alexander]

Not sure what the problem is. When I MP buzz my tone is very airy and inconsistent. If I don't apply more pressure and I slur to high notes it sounds like I'm just lip buzzing. I don't think applying more pressure is the answer.

thanks

[Andy Del]

You need to realise that your description means the same to us. We cannot be sure what the problem is either!

You need to ask your or get a, good trumpet teacher, one who can work through fundamental issues with you.

The bottom line of course, is that you make a great sound on the horn, something you don't mention here...

cheers

Andy
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[John Mohan]

[Tyler Alexander]

[John Mohan]

[cheiden]

It's a bit tangent to your request but I might recommend that you watch Charlie Porter's YouTube video on "How to form an embouchure". It's a long video but at several points, he talks about setting up the embouchure in a way that facilitates producing a vibration. Could help you with the inconsistencies.
https://youtu.be/lLE_-ly8hrQ
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[dstdenis]

If you're curious about the potential benefits of mpc buzzing, how to do it properly and what to expect along the way, get James Thompson's method, The Buzzing Book.
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[kehaulani]

On the other hand, you might read "The Buzzing Book" by James Thomson. Aside from playing in the Atlanta Symphony, among others, he teaches at the Eastman School of Music. Evidently he believes in buzzing.

Take what works for you, but as John has shown, buzzing seems to work for some but not others. If it works, continue to pursue it. But if not, I wouldn't loose a lot of sleep over it.

(p.s. evidently dstdenis was writing at the same time as I was.)
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[Craig Swartz]

I hope you realize that if you are really "buzzing" your lips while you play your mouthpiece you will get a very thin, nasal tone. Play the mouthpiece as you would your trumpet, making tiny tweaks with the corners of the mouth and tongue that are within the cup diameter. Good luck.

[TKSop]

Lip buzzing, done right, can be a great calisthenic (complimentary supplementary exercise), as can mouthpiece buzzing.

Done wrong... it can be at best a waste of time to do either free buzzing OR mouthpiece buzzing... heck, it can also be a waste of time to spend hours practicing if you're not practicing worthwhile material.

It might seem boring, but a good teacher who knows what to look for (not necessarily the same as a teacher who has a deeply engrained sense of what to say, how to think and an insistence on "one" right way to do things) is invaluable... at the end of the day, you have to work out how to get the best results - you won't necessarily believe the same things as I will, or anyone else on this thread will, but without a good teacher to reinforce the good and reproach the bad, you'll find it a much longer road to travel.


The one concept not (thusfar) suggested here that I'll suggest looking into is leadpipe buzzing.
If nothing else, it'll show just how little effort it takes to actually set up the vibrations in the horn - it takes much less effort than lip-buzzing (free buzzing) or mouthpiece buzzing does, and that can promote a more relaxed approach that can be beneficial (if you're too tense to begin with).

Ultimately, it's all about balance - you need enough lip-lip compression to play high properly, but you need to be relaxed enough that you're not wasting energy whilst playing things that can be easily accomplished with less effort (which would be the definition of in-efficiency).


I know I'm repeating myself, but a good teacher who knows what to look for is the key to serious progress - don't be dogmatic, and don't accept a teacher who is either - sometimes completely opposite beliefs lead great trumpeters to the exact same results, you just have to find what beliefs it takes you to achieve your best and then practice your nuts off.

All the best!

[rufflicks]

Tyler,

West Sac... bit of a rough part of town brother. I do love the Russian Burger joint though. Used to be called Pioneer Burger. Eppies… good shakes. Ok sorry back to trumpet.

Now that I have your attention and you realize I must be familiar with the area, lets talk.

As others have stated lip buzzing is not the same as playing but it can be a tool to fix or work on certain aspects of your playing. You have several posts that lead me to believe you want to get better but have very little resources to purchase materials or find private instruction. My question to you is, are you willing to put in the work… I mean work? I am not talking about a quick fix but serious shed time!!!! If you are then click on the link I have in my signature and see if you want to take this a step further.

If you are willing to commit to spending serious time on the horn and would like to work with me let me know.

Best, Jon
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[zaferis]

I agree with Mr Mohan on this one...

Being one that likes to use sport training as examples: mouthpiece buzzing is like using just the golf club grip when working on your golf swing - yes, there are certain aspects that could be valuable but there is so much missing, in this case, the weight and length of the club, which changes many things, some that you may not be aware of. Something the scratch golfer might do (with strict individual guidance) but has little value to a duffer.

By buzzing only on the mouthpiece there are aspects and affects of the instrument that are missing and in such small detail that you are probably not aware of them thus, not aware of sublte differences in what you are doing.

For me, limitted and very specific benefits from buzzing - more useful to the highly advanced player.

Spend your time shedding the entire instrument.
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[snichols]

[Bflatman]

My 2 cents

Mouthpiece buzzing dont mean diddly.

If you have a good tone on trumpet it doesnt matter what your lip buzzing or mouthpiece buzzing sounds like.

I dont know any gigs where they require mouthpiece buzzing so it is irrelevent.

Where it is important is if you know you have a problem, and you know that mouthpiece buzzing will help fix that problem, and you also know how to use mouthpiece buzzing to fix that problem, then and only then is it of any value.

If you have good trumpet tones and you are looking around for ways to make your trumpet tone better, mouthpiece buzzing is not it. Practice on the trumpet is it.

I would go further. If you have good trumpet tone and you instigate mouthpiece buzzing just hoping or believing that things will improve without knowing exactly what you are doing you may destroy in some way your trumpet tone.

I will go further, I have a great tone, I know this I have been told many times by trumpeters musicians band leaders and audiences, I have mouthpiece buzzed and believe it can help. But I hardly ever buzz, my practice day is 4 hours practicing on trumpet, 3 to 5 hours playing, A few seconds buzzing if that.

You do not need buzzing unless you have a distinct problem. You can develop all the tone you will ever need without buzzing.

If it aint broke dont fix it.

[mm55]

[TKSop]

There are some who find practicing pedals helpful (I'm not one of them)... but you'll never need that in a performance either.


There aren't necessarily hard and fast rules... I think we'd all be forced to agree that we all practice some things that won't necessarily be used in performance - be that free-buzzing, mouthpiece buzzing, leadpipe buzzing, pedal tones, pencil exercises, singing, didgeridoo's (etc).

Take any of the schools of thought and you'll find atleast one of the above featured - so at the end of the day, you'll find they all agree that it's not just about practicing what you need to use, but that other things can be helpful too.


For every example of a famous player who finds some things useful, you'll find examples of famous players who don't find it useful and sometimes even famous players who found it harmful (eg: Brisbois and pedal tones).

For every school of thought that recommends practicing certain supplementaries, you'll find another that rejects them... for examples: CG puts pedals as an essential, Reinhardt forbids them entirely (on trumpet); some schools encourage mouthpiece buzzing, Reinhardt focuses on free-buzzing and CG doesn't encourage either....

When you look at how many successful players have arrived at incredible levels of performance by VERY different roads (or through very different schools of thought and very different exercises).... you start to see, I think, that a certain amount of your success is about giving things a decent go, finding the things that suit you and working hard at the right things - which might not be exactly the same for you as they are for me (though there's bound to be significant overlap).[/b]

[Bflatman]

I think you miss my point.

Mouthpiece buzzing is quite different to tone generation and tone production on a trumpet, the resistance is quite different. In many ways because the resistance is so vastly different, many report difficulty buzzing without an instrument.

This is simply not the case with pedal tones Clarke and anything else that is practiced as mouthpiece/instrument system that does allow good tone production and development of skill.

I deeply question the value of practicing in a way that is in many ways unrelated to actual play and playing conditions.

This would be somewhat similar to practicing marathon running by taking your running shoes off and running a marathon without shoes. Such a practice could if it is to correct a fault, result in better running, but simply running without shoes could detrimentally affect running with shoes.

Lets not confuse good practice on long tones Clarke and Pedals, or indeed any other practice with an instrument, with buzzing which can encourage a different embouchure and approach to playing, which could easily mess up good development.

I say again buzzing is not part of a performance, playing notes on an instrument is, and therefore all the practice methods that consist of playing notes on an instrument are relevant. buzzing like a kazoo is not, unless it is specifically indicated.

When you say practicing what you need to do is exactly my point, what we are talking about here is a practice method that in my opinion must be restricted to when you need it, and not practiced when you dont.

The OP said that the reason he uses buzzing is because it might help. That is no reason to practice something.

I could do pencil exercise for 1 hour ,mouthpiece buzz for an hour, digeridoo for an hour. After that 3 hours strenuous practice how much more advanced would I be than if I had simply practiced my trumpet for 3 hours. The fact is I would be going backwards.

The best practice for trumpet in my opinion is practicing trumpet.

If a teacher suggests mouthpiece buzzing then that is the correct thing to do, but not just cos I want to. It has to have a developmental goal, and be done in the correct way.

It has been said that many who do the pencil exercise in fact do it wrong. Should we continue with squandering vast of amounts of practice time on worthless exercises simply because we dont know how to do them right or if we need them at all.

Since you guys insist on linking Clarke in with this mouthpiece buzzing question, I suggest that from now on you practice your Clarke on mouthpiece alone, I also suggest buzzing the carnival of venice. That should reap real benefits.

[Derek Reaban]

I really liked the Wayne Bergeron Masterclass in Arizona where he discussed mouthpiece buzzing in addition to many other thing.

The following paragraph is excerpted from the linked article, and this guidance may lead the original poster in a better direction to find some benefit from these exercises. A little goes a long way, so I agree with other posters to spend more time on the trumpet, but doing mouthpiece work as suggested by Wayne may point to improvements in tone production.

[Bflatman]

I very much like this explanation thanks Derek.

This links to an opinion I read some time ago in essence it said that simply buzzing into a mouthpiece encourages poor tone generation. It was said that a trumpet tone is not a buzz, the two are different.

I think this is fundamental to the issue. Generation of good tones and not buzzes are perhaps the key to how to improve tone.

I hear all the time trumpet players who blast out horrible loud noises. In effect an amplified buzz. I think the words "a way to relate the buzz to his actual playing" are absolutely on the money and pertinent.

It is not enough to buzz, I dont think that when generating a buzz on the mouthpiece, you can tell what is a good buzz and what is a bad buzz

Uan Racey it is said taught by instructing his students to play a single tone on the trumpet for a solid hour, and to make that one tone the very best that he could. Isnt this the opposite concept of mouthpiece buzzing where you have no idea if the tone is good or not.

If you constantly practice poor tone generation on the mouthpiece alone surely that is that going to carry over into your playing on the instrument.

[mm55]