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Do you switch inside diameter on your mouthpieces? |
Yes |
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[ 35 ] |
No |
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46% |
[ 30 ] |
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Total Votes : 65 |
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Martinharris Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:13 am Post subject: Why not switch diameters? |
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Hi guys,
I'd like to play a 3C rim for classical playing and a small 7C rim for lead playing but lots of guys say you shouldn't switch diameters.
What kind of problems do you face when you switch diameter? |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2611 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I've been thinking about this for some time. I play different instruments on a daily basis. I have the best mouthpiece for each instrument for me. I used to be obsessed with diameters and bores and all kinds of data. Since I stopped measuring and thinking so much and just playing, everything is much better. I avoid all measuring and knowledge of the individual mouthpieces. If it works, it stays with that horn. My cornet mouthpieces are all old original ones that I have no idea as to their dimensions or characteristics. This is quite freeing. _________________ Richard
Conn 22B Trumpet
York Eminence Model 4028 Cornet
1903 Conn The Wonder Cornet |
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dcjway Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I play what feels right on my chops. I've bought and sold about 200 horns over the passage of time and have gathered a box full of mouthpieces, some small (Al Cass, Bach 17C1 and 17C2) some not so small (Stork 1, Bach 1C, Shilke 20). I was advised by one of my teachers to pick one and stick with it, and I have found that to be great advice. All of the players from the past and present that I look to seem to have done the the same. What I've come to believe is to play and practice consistently on a daily basis, even if I only have a little time in a busy day (I work 12 hour shifts) I find I improve. Good luck and remember time is one thing you can't replace so don't waste it. _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8910 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I switch diameter only for picc where I go from a small vintage Bach 3C to Yamaha 11B4 (Bach 7C size). That transition doesn't hang me up. I'd be a bit more wary of using different diameters on the Bb for fear that going between them I'd have more instability and I'd be inaccurate for a while and probably resort to pressure. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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RussellDDixon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2014 Posts: 830 Location: Mason, OH
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: |
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I personally do not think it should be a problem; although, I don't do it. I have played on a 3C, 7C and I am now playing on a 10.5C diameter. Look at all the trumpet players who have also played trombone as a double instrument. That is a HUGE change and it does NOT have an adverse effect on them. I have played different sizes with drastically differing rims (Marcinkiewicz Claude Gordon Models then going to a Monette Prana for range studies) with no adverse effects.
I play a Patrick 12C and a Marcinkiewicz Claude Gordon Personal with drastically different rims and also differences in diamater with no problem. _________________ Schilke X3 Bb trumpet
Yamaha 631g Flugelhorn
Lynn Nicholson Model Monette Prana XLT mouthpiece
Kanstul Claude Gordon Personal mouthpiece
Last edited by RussellDDixon on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Matthew Anklan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Posts: 1085 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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I have always used "3C" type Mouthpieces for the majority of my practicing, teaching, classical and jazz playing, and have always used Mouthpieces in the "5" diameter for lead playing, Piccolo trumpet playing, and on my flugelhorn. I've never run into any serious problems, no issues with accuracy, and no issues with endurance. I think it is important if you intend to use different rim sizes that the rims be comparable to each other in shape so that switching is more natural. You do have to practice on both, so be sure to build your practice routine around including both rim sizes. _________________ Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com |
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Dieter Z Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I find it difficult to stick with one size ,mouthpiece. I usually play anything from a ACB CeeBear (approx 1X) to a ACB MV3C, and occasionally a ACB 7PT on Picc. _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing |
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Martinharris Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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So nobody experiences double buzzing when switching to the bigger rim? |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm one of those that can't switch. I play a Curry 3. rim on all my instruments. Some people can switch sizes, no problem, and others can't - it's no big deal, you just have to find out what works well for you! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Martinharris Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: |
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It is a massive deal. And btw, you need to stop playing that curry 3 rim,
It's way to soft and it will mess up your chops, it did mine |
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maynard-46 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Oct 2002 Posts: 1842 Location: GEORGIA
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:47 am Post subject: why not switch diameters? |
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Yes I do. For lead playing I use a Warb. Odneal top which has a .590 I.D. and for all other playing I use a Warb. 9W Series which has a .610 I.D. Not a huge difference but I find it to be an easy switch. I've ALWAYS used a smaller I.D. flugel piece compared to my trumpet I.D. due to the deeper cup and bigger throat. Good luck and do what feels comfortable for YOU and gives YOU the best results. "Different strokes for different folks"!!!
Butch _________________ TRUMPE: SCHILKE B7 / Legends .585 "CatMaster" Top / KT "RT1" BB / Reeves #5.75 Sleeve.
FLUGELHORN: ADAMS Custom "F1" / Legends .585 "CatMaster FL. |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: |
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I used to be "mouthpiece dependent." That is, I used to get swollen chops if I switched to a different rim size or contour, even when simply testing a mpc. Late last year, I made a major change in my approach to playing and my embouchure made quite a shift. The problem gradually went away. I went on a new mpc safari with a friend and tried several ranging from a Parduba 5.5 all the way up to a Bach 1C, multiple times in the same day with no ill effects. I settled on a comfortable size range with a few specialized outliers, and now my array of mpcs includes a custom mpc with a modified 1-1/2 rim, a Kanstul top with a Schilke 15B rim, a Curry 3Z, a reeves Dynamic Mass 43C, a Reeves 43M with a Bach Artisan 3C rim, a Bach 7E and a Curry 1VC. All distinctly different rims, and no problem with them.
So if a player is able to switch rims with no ill effects to his playing, I see no reason why he shouldn't. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee
Last edited by Tpt_Guy on Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Everybody is different. You have to do what works for you. Also, in my experience, what works for you may change over time. |
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Dieter Z Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 449 Location: Mountains of North Carolina
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Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | what works for you may change over time. |
+1 _________________ B & H Sovereign 928
Conn 80A
F. Besson Brevette Kanstul made
B&S Challenger II 3137 rl
Buescher 400 - 225 (WWII)
Benge 90C
Eastman 540 D/Eb
ACB Fluegelhorn
Selmer Picc
ACB mouthpieces for most of my playing |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2310 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:33 am Post subject: |
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Dieter Z wrote: | Ed Kennedy wrote: | what works for you may change over time. |
+1 |
I am one that does not switch sizes..(becasue it works for me)
My only thought as a reason not to switch sizes is that you are training your chops to play on multiple settings, thus you have one more thing to "learn" and to be current with. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:13 am Post subject: |
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i find it best not to confound my chops and play the same diameter, and even rim, on both trumpet and flugel. it's a good principle and many do this. you will have the same lip set and feel.
in the end it's whatever you can get away with and finding out what works for you. |
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Lionel Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jul 2016 Posts: 783
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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Why not switch diameters? |
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Martinharris wrote: | Hi guys,
I'd like to play a 3C rim for classical playing and a small 7C rim for lead playing but lots of guys say you shouldn't switch diameters.
What kind of problems do you face when you switch diameter? |
I play a lot. And perform very strenuous isometric exercises on my chops daily too.
So? A minor deviation in rim or cup depth is not a significant matter. I hardly notice it at all. In fact my mouthpiece sizes run the gamut of a lead piece shallower than anything Schilke mouthpiece makes in stock to something deeper than than Reynold Schilkes 22 cookie cutter.
It is this smallest of the batch which I use the most. Consider it my "main" piece. Yet despite its smallness I find little trouble at all switching to my largest piece. Which in truth is really a flugel horn mouthpiece put into a cornet to trumpet adapter.
Far greater depth and size changes occur from between trumpet mouthpieces and low brass mouthpieces which many trumpet players double on. This fact alone ought to take air out of the sails of the naysayers. Maynard was a great doubler on trombone. Did it affect his trumpet chops? Not hardly.
These kinds of advice from the naysayers represents what I call "conventional thinking". They dont explore new ideas. Nor engage critical thinking. In fact they generally only have average "up to high C" range too.
When I hear their tones even in just the middle register I can usually predict that they have no upper register at all. So when I hear them advise others,
"Dont screw up your chops by playing anything except one mouthpiece"?
I really wonder what they're trying to "protect"? As to my mind they are all weak trumpet players. I consider almost all trumpet players who dont have a useable sounding G above high C to be weak players. And conventional thinking is what produces so many of them... _________________ "Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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Bflatman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 720
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:09 am Post subject: |
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I believe this comes from misunderstood advice.
Teachers have said pick one mouthpiece and stick to it, and by that they mean, stop screwing around changing your gear. practice properly and stop looking for quick fixes and crutches.
Certain trumpet players seem to have little self control and have to look for things to change in an attempt to get better. They should not change their gear to play better they should change themselves. Its called improvement and its the result of practice.
Players have misunderstood that good advice from teachers as meaning, you have to stick with one mouthpiece all the time.
I am with Lionel weak players are limited players and make up rules to justify their own limitations.
They used to say dont sail off over the ocean because you will fall off the edge of the world, they used to say you cant travel faster than 100 miles an hour or you will explode. Those myths aint true either.
I play the biggest and deepest to the shallowest and smallest its no big deal at all. The sooner players stop limiting themselves the sooner real progress can happen. |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Reminds me of Brian Shook's bio of William Vacchiano, in which he goes into great detail about mouthpiece design and what Vacchiano learned by experimenting with mouthpieces.
Vacchiano thought it was useful to try different mouthpiece designs, and he would sometimes use different mouthpieces even in performance, but he kept the same rim on all of the variations because he didn't want to throw his embouchure off. He said, "In spite of the stories of how many times I changed mouthpieces, I always keep the same rim. I was not out to be a hero."
Could he have managed to play mpcs with different rim IDs? Yeah, probably—he was a great player. Seems he just didn't think it was necessary or worth it, even though he was enthusiastic about experimenting with other aspects of mouthpiece design. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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chapahi Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2005 Posts: 1465 Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Why not switch diameters? |
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Lionel wrote: |
Far greater depth and size changes occur from between trumpet mouthpieces and low brass mouthpieces which many trumpet players double on. This fact alone ought to take air out of the sails of the naysayers. Maynard was a great doubler on trombone. Did it affect his trumpet chops? Not hardly.
"Dont screw up your chops by playing anything except one mouthpiece"?
I really wonder what they're trying to "protect"? As to my mind they are all weak trumpet players. I consider almost all trumpet players who dont have a useable sounding G above high C to be weak players. And conventional thinking is what produces so many of them... |
When I doubled a lot on trombone I felt more comfortable and sounded better on small id trumpet mouthpieces. Playing on a larger trumpet mouthpiece doesn't immediately enhance my playing on a smaller id mouthpice. I don't think it's the same. _________________ Sima, Kanstul 1525 Flugel and Kanstul pocket trumpet. Olds Super |
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