| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
slee
New Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 10
|
 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: Warburton PETE |
 |
|
| Can anyone talk about whether or not the PETE is useful for high range development, and if so, how you go about using one -- i.e., how many minutes before rest, how long a rest, how many times a day, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Betelgeuse215
Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 186
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I would recommend a straw. It is not as hard on your lips and is way cheaper |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
1jazzyalex
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2016
Posts: 569
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'll have to read up on "Pete".
_________________
Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A
Last edited by 1jazzyalex on Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4808
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Warburton PETE |
|
|
| slee wrote: | | Can anyone talk about whether or not the PETE is useful for high range development, and if so, how you go about using one -- i.e., how many minutes before rest, how long a rest, how many times a day, etc. |
I've been using a regular PETE for about 3 years now.
All aspects of my playing have gotten noticeably better.
I use it to isolate my mouth corner muscles. When I started, I could do maybe 30 seconds before they'd start to shake (lactic acid doing its job).
I've gradually worked up to around 5 minutes of intense corner muscle concentration. Then I rest for 5 minutes and start my routine on the horn.
Terry has a video and the PETE comes with instructions on how to use it. I tried those & found that FOR ME what I do gives me the best results.
I think it's very similar to the Caruso 6 Notes in that you isolate and concentrate on the embouchure setting / corners.
I have tried a PETE PRO, but FOR ME, the regular PETE works just fine.
_________________
Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chilesaj2
New Member
Joined: 15 Oct 2013
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't get a chance to play much so got the P.E.T.E pro and noticed a huge difference doing a few reps a day. The week I don't use it, I feel like my range isn't that strong and not the best sound behind it and the week I do feels like Double C's etc. easy and as if spending a lot of time on it during the week and sound is as if been practicing a lot. For range I personally like to hold the P.E.T.E with the opposite end in my mouth and wait till I feel a burning sensation in my corners. Once it seems it's about to get uncomfortable I'll take it out...rest for the same amount of time and redo 2 more reps. Any student I had struggle with range I recommended getting them the P.E.T.E and those that used it consistently and smartly I noticed there range increasing from a 3rd-5th higher. Truly a great product if used smartly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetdon
Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 361
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: Re: Warburton PETE |
|
|
| trpthrld wrote: | | slee wrote: | | Can anyone talk about whether or not the PETE is useful for high range development, and if so, how you go about using one -- i.e., how many minutes before rest, how long a rest, how many times a day, etc. |
I've been using a regular PETE for about 3 years now.
All aspects of my playing have gotten noticeably better.
I use it to isolate my mouth corner muscles. When I started, I could do maybe 30 seconds before they'd start to shake (lactic acid doing its job).
I've gradually worked up to around 5 minutes of intense corner muscle concentration. Then I rest for 5 minutes and start my routine on the horn.
Terry has a video and the PETE comes with instructions on how to use it. I tried those & found that FOR ME what I do gives me the best results.
|
Tim, could you explain more about how you use PETE for your desired results?
Thank you! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4808
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
1jazzyalex
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jun 2016
Posts: 569
Location: San Jose, CA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
$40 and change sounds high but if it comes with a training course and it *works*, to me it'd be money well spent.
_________________
Yamaha 8335LA with Blessing 3C, 5C, Schilke 11A4A |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4808
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 1jazzyalex wrote: | | $40 and change sounds high but if it comes with a training course and it *works*, to me it'd be money well spent. |
Everyone will have a different take on it.
As I mentioned, I tried a PETE Pro for a while. Didn't do anything for me that a regular PETE did...so I sold it. I sprayed mouthpiece sanitizer on it before packing it and the buyer knew it was used.
I'm sure he did whatever he felt necessary before using it.
Sold it for a few bucks less than I paid for it.
My point is...if you get one & don't like it, you'll be able to sell it fairly easily & not lose but very little money in the process.
However...if it works for you...then it's money well spent, eh?
_________________
Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trumpetdon
Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2003
Posts: 361
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Warburton PETE |
|
|
| trpthrld wrote: | | trumpetdon wrote: | | Tim, could you explain more about how you use PETE for your desired results? |
I put it in my mouth between the front of my teeth & the back of my lips.
I put my corners like if I was saying the letter "M" and make dimples. I then hold that setting.
Started out I could hold that for maybe 30 seconds. After several years & daily use as the first thing I do to prep for warming up, I can now do 5 minutes or so without any thought. |
Thanks for your response. So no pulling, or attempting to hold PETE device up with your lips. Just the hold. Yes? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trpthrld
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 4808
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've been working with Lynn Nicholson's and Pops McGlaughlin's concepts of playing which involve relaxed, tensionless, unfurled (Lynn), playing. So I don't do 'chop exercises' the way I used to - i.e. - trying to 'max out' the muscles and build a lot of chop strength. I've been using the PETE Pro just as 'chilesaj2' is describing. I actually found a good description of what I feel this exercise is doing for me written by the user 'Furcifer':
| Quote: | See if this helps with the narrow end (for the longest time, I also only used the disc end):
Place the narrow end against the teeth, perpendicular or slightly above. Use enough of a pucker to squeeze down the playing surfaces of your aperture on the middle of the concave area. Pay particular attention to getting the bottom lip out there. (In particular, don't roll in just to get a harder clamp on the PETE. Clamping the PETE isn't the goal, eventually forming the correct aperture with ample strength is.)
The idea I like to go for is letting the PETE hold the aperture open as I firmly support the embouchure around it. This helps me approximate the feel that MF often talked about: A full buzz with a rounder aperture feel (as opposed to flattening it out), and the lower lip out, unfurled so that the buzzing surface is near the inside edge of the lips (instead of near the outside edge from "rolling in" too much). For me, this results in a fatter resonant sound, easier range with less tension, more endurance and with more airflow. |
As he says, I don't roll the lower lip in to get 'maximum clamping power', and I stop once I feel some tiredness - I don't try to 'max out' like I would of used to before being introduced to Pops' and Lynn's concepts. I think of it more in terms of enforcing a position of the chops - muscle memory over muscle strength. Anyway, I'm getting really good results from doing it this way. The feeling of relaxation and 'closeness' between notes feel great when I am playing. All the best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chuck in ny
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Warburton PETE |
|
|
| trpthrld wrote: | | trumpetdon wrote: | | Tim, could you explain more about how you use PETE for your desired results? |
I put it in my mouth between the front of my teeth & the back of my lips.
I put my corners like if I was saying the letter "M" and make dimples. I then hold that setting.
Started out I could hold that for maybe 30 seconds. After several years & daily use as the first thing I do to prep for warming up, I can now do 5 minutes or so without any thought. |
tim
thanks i will give this a shot. there's more than one way to go about the device. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | tim
thanks i will give this a shot. there's more than one way to go about the device.
|
That's for sure Chuck. You should talk with Ken Titmus to find all the latest ways cats are using it. Hopefully Tim Wendt will chime in with his opinion as he is a busy pro player, but my impression is, from talking with several players and reading comments from people like Roger Ingram, is that the tugging exercise is more for if you're not playing a lot that day. Like, if you are doing a lot of gigs and/or are just playing a lot in live situations all the time, maybe the tug exercise would be too much to do on those days? It's been a few months now where I haven't played a lot everyday..but, the next time, maybe I'll try a tug for a couple of minutes.
I feel the 'squeeze' exercise done in the way described above, is doing what both furcifer and myself are explaining.
Playing with play-alongs and albums can be a good endurance workout for sure (Bobby Shew really recommends this for endurance), but, still, I find nothing really beats the workout you get playing gigs..or just playing in a live situation with other musicians. All the best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakejw
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Brooklyn, New York
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just ordered a PRO, waiting for delivery. I used to think it was more snake oil, now I'm looking for a way to at least keep my embouchure in shape when I can't play for a day or two. Free buzzing, skeleton mpc, lip exercises...none of them can replace the horn, and strength alone will not give you high notes. But the one area I think it could really help with is endurance. That's why Roger calls it a "gig on a stick."
_________________
New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Many people talk about the PETE in regards to endurance and, of course, range and endurance do go hand in hand. But the PETE used the way I and others are describing above can, imo, establish a muscle memory/sweet spot that can make sure you have the right lip position that doesn't hamper you - no matter how much endurance you have. Best. Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
islandtrumpeter
New Member
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 9
Location: St. Louis, MO
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I was always told that establishing muscle memory and the "sweet spot" could be done by limiting mouthpiece adjustment during warm-ups and even breathing through the nose in some cases. Is the P.E.T.E. supposed to be like an off-the-horn equivalent to training of the aperture or am I missing something?
_________________
Lyle Simpson
UMKC Conservatory '21
Bach Strad 37
Bach Artisan C
Yamaha 6810S Piccolo
ACB Flugel
Austin Custom Brass MPs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
I was always told that establishing muscle memory and the "sweet spot" could be done by limiting mouthpiece adjustment during warm-ups and even breathing through the nose in some cases. Is the P.E.T.E. supposed to be like an off-the-horn equivalent to training of the aperture or am I missing something?
|
If the PETE is used in the way 'furcifer' is describing, I would say it is an off-the-horn equivalent to training a type of muscle memory of the aperture.
On the horn, nose breathing can definitely be good. Approaching from the top lip down when you put the horn on the chops (although I'm not sure if it's the reverse for upstream players - you'd have to check with a trained Reinhardt instructor) can be another good way. Circular breathing studies like Clarke #1 or 'Moto Perpetuo' can be another good tool. Also long tones - best from Low C to high C - with crescendos and decrescendos is also a great way to practice airflow and aperture control and to get things working in a very synchronistic and efficient way. All the best, Lex
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
chuck in ny
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 3597
Location: New York
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i got an immediate increase in endurance from doing the 'pull' exercise. the effect did not intensify over time.
tim wendt has his uses. thank you, tim. i switched to tim's isometric use just a bit ago and have done this about 5 times. picking the horn up today my embouchure was stronger right in the center and the high register was improved. it's a new feel and will take a few sessions to properly control but added strength is clearly there. when doing the exercise it's important to concentrate on the 'M' aspect which keeps the lips squeezing in towards the center. i am up to 1:11 and adding a second with each use. without the mental 'M' focus the lips can simply hold the rim of the disc against the teeth and it is a different muscular experience. there is a burn doing the exercise but nothing over the top.
lex... not surprised you relate to the device in this way. it's really funny to see alternate exercises coming around because you would ordinarily figure if the factory says to do it a certain way they would know best. it's a moving target though. absolutely great stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY
|
| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Awhile back Ken Titmus told me Eric Miyashiro was doing the tug on the left side of his mouth, the center, and the right.
_________________
Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
