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Time on the Horn



 
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EricV
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:57 pm    Post subject: Time on the Horn Reply with quote

I have read a lot of posts on here and watched youtube clips where ex CG students are saying that Claude set them routines upwards of 6 hours a day practice which to me seems to go against the "Build up, Dont tear down" philosophy of CG. With the amount of rest you would need, this would be around 12-14 hours!

I guess it would depend on the difficulty of the material in the routines, but you would still need some serious chops. Being retired from full time work now, i have more time for practice, but i am wary of pushing too hard and average around 2 hours most days except when i have rehearsals or gigs. How did these guys get there chops in that sort of shape without tearing down?

im interested in what others do,

thanks
EricV
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GeorgeB
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do approximately 90 minutes technical stuff in the mornings and 60 minutes in the afternoon playing songs only. On band practice days I do a 20 minute morning routine that covers a little of everything including expanding scales to high C. I do nothing else until band practice that evening. The same goes if I am doing a concert. I do things this way because I am 80 and my chops are not what they were in my younger playing days, so I save them for the band.
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OldKing
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeorgeB wrote:
I do approximately 90 minutes technical stuff in the mornings and 60 minutes in the afternoon playing songs only. On band practice days I do a 20 minute morning routine that covers a little of everything including expanding scales to high C. I do nothing else until band practice that evening. The same goes if I am doing a concert. I do things this way because I am 80 and my chops are not what they were in my younger playing days, so I save them for the band.


'Sounds pretty wise, for any age.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claude did not assign routines that long until after spending a significant amount of time (years) slowly building up the student's routine. When I first started studying with Claude in 1979 I had already gone through about half of the Systematic Approach book on my own, including all the assigned material from other books, so I was already practicing 2 to 3 hours a day. I was disappointed when the first daily routine Claude assigned me only represented about an hour of horn on the fact time each day. But my playing improved significantly rather quickly (in retrospect I had been over-practicing when doing the SA book material as assigned).

Little by little Claude added more and more to my routine. By around 1984 or 1985 it was taking around 4 to 6 hours a day to do. When I got my first full time job in 1987, relieving Wayne Bergeron's then wife-to-be Debbie Wagner who was struggling on a heavy circus gig and wanting off of it, I was ready for those triple show days.

Cheers,

John Mohan
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lexluther
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a current CG student I can relate. Yes, there is lots of homework (hours). Yes, it is difficult homework. Finally, Yes, you do get used to it, however, I find that I truly enjoy the drills. I find that it kind of defines my practice. If I back off I am just not happy with myself. I just make sure and rest often. I am nothing more than a student of this instrument, MAYBE someday the practice will pay off.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lexluther posted:

Quote:
As a current CG student I can relate. Yes, there is lots of homework (hours). Yes, it is difficult homework. Finally, Yes, you do get used to it, however, I find that I truly enjoy the drills. I find that it kind of defines my practice. If I back off I am just not happy with myself. I just make sure and rest often. I am nothing more than a student of this instrument, MAYBE someday the practice will pay off.


+1

I happen to be on travel at the moment and I am very frustrated that I cannot practice a full load every day (1 1/2 - 3 hours). I actually miss not doing my daily exercises. I did bring my horn and planned to find a parking lot to play in but it is hot as blazes outside.

Warm regards,
Grits
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EricV
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys, it is interesting to me what others do.

My initial post was because it seemed awful quiet in the CG forum! and i have just got home after a month away. We live in Australia and have a daughter with our 2 beautiful grand children in Canada so we go there a couple of times a year and we have just spent June there.

I have an old cornet i leave there and try to do something each day, at least a few Colin flexibilities but its not ideal, so i understand your challenges Grits. I understand the routines etc as i have taken lessons from Jeff Purtle for a number of years and i know that in a few weeks with some steady practice i will be feeling good again, its already better in just a week. It just frustrates me a bit sometimes that trumpet isnt like Guitar and can be plugged in and just go!!

thanks again
EricV
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dcjway
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few years ago I talked to Jeff about lessons but at the time I decided to go with a retired orchestra player that had moved into my area, turned out to be not such a good idea. I have finally started with Jeff 4 weeks ago and wish I had gone with him in the first place. Needless to say it's a big change, switching from a Bach C cup to a CG personal with the 20 throat is pretty challenging but I'm building my wind power. I work 12hr shifts that flip flop between 6am-6pm and 6pm-6am, most of the time I don't even know what day it is, so the skype thing works really well. On the days I work sometimes the best I can do is an hour and on my days off I do an hour in the morning and an hour later in the day. I have two 4 day stretches of work each month and two 3 day stretches and usually after the 4 day stretch I'm beat and the last thing I want to do is practice but I force myself and the funny thing is they end up being the most enjoyable.
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EricV
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You wont regret going with Jeff, apart from being an all-round good guy he really knows the CG stuff inside out and will get you where you want to go so long as you follow the routine and put some work in.

I dont envy you your work schedule, to even fit in the time you do is a great effort and a credit to your dedication. It would be great to get updates on your progress.

Cheers
EricV
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dcjway
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EricV wrote:
You wont regret going with Jeff, apart from being an all-round good guy he really knows the CG stuff inside out and will get you where you want to go so long as you follow the routine and put some work in.

I dont envy you your work schedule, to even fit in the time you do is a great effort and a credit to your dedication. It would be great to get updates on your progress.

Cheers
EricV


I'll keep you posted, I keep TH up on my computer at work, in fact I'm at work now it's 4am east coast US time. I get off at 6 and I have a lesson today at 3:30pm, so a few hours of sleep then try to get in some practice beforehand.

Thanks,
Dave
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EricV
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be great, thanks.

My lesson is at 8.00am here due to time difference, so no time for much practice beforehand, but the upside is a large chunk of my routine is done , freeing up the rest of the day.

Cheers
EricV
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't looked on TH in a week or so and see you talking about me. Thanks for the compliments! I will try and add something to this thread.

I never was assigned anything close to 6 hours of practice from Claude. For one, he never assigned a specific amount of time and the focus was always on getting the feel and resting to prevent fatigue and taking as much time as necessary to accomplish that and make improvements daily. The longest routines he ever assigned me took 4.5 hours to get through and that was very rare. It usually took me about 3 hours to slightly longer than that to do well. And, sometimes when studying later it would take under 2 hours because of some of the exercises spanning such a big range that doing 12 keys is enough. An example is the later lessons in Velocity Studies where they start on Pedal C and end on High C. Doing 12 keys would get you to a Double C. Some parts of the routines became more condensed over time.

I started with Claude at the beginning of the 11th grade in high school and I did everything he told me to do every day no matter what. I didn't want my lack of improvement to be my fault for not following the directions.

My father had passed away the middle of my 9th grade year and my widowed mom would drive me 100 miles to lessons with Claude. At one point she was bothered that I wasn't doing my home work and my grades were not high as she thought they should be. She decided to have a talk with Claude and tell him to not assign me so much. Well..... That was when the routine became 4.5 hours. I loved it and thought it was kind of funny and she never ever asked Claude to do anything again and just left us alone.

For Claude's benefit he didn't do it to be spiteful but we happened to be in Clarke Seven with all the two octave arpeggios and the page of diminished arpeggios and that first week I was doing "How You Practice" with the etude plus all the other stuff in the routine. It wasn't 4.5 hours for very long and probably only for the first week.

When you put your focus on the quality and not the time you will often experience that maybe the first few days mean your routine is longer and then as your accuracy and ease and speed increase it takes less time to play. But, if you just watched the clock you would miss getting the full benefit.

You can also read the bios of Clarke, Mendez, and Dokshitzer and that all basically stress the importance resting to prevent fatigue or as Claude would say, "Rest as much as you play." Those three bios also stress the benefit of playing several shorter 20-30 minute sets in your daily practice instead of one long constant session. Not everyone can make that work in their schedule. But, I usually try and play my flexibility studies first thing in the day for 30 minutes and then do the other things scattered throughout the day and end with the range study late at night before bed. Nobody cares at my house that I play my range study at midnight and it works perfect for me. Not everyone has that freedom though.

https://www.purtle.com/how-i-became-cornetist-herbert-l-clarke

That's the Clarke bio in an easy to navigate format. Enjoy!
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