Struggling with pedal C

[BGinNJ]

I'm working on pedal tones & slurs, trying to get rid of the transition in partials, for example, middle C to pedal C. I can only play pedal C with 1-2-3 or 2-3 fingering, if I try to play it open, at best it comes out as a Bb, and I can only lip it up to about a B before the break occurs, the buzz stops. my instructor said try working down from middle C, playing each note open- I get stuck around F# that way.

What's the trick? I've been at it for a couple of weeks, not getting anywhere.

[deleted_user_680e93b]

[John Mohan]

Due to the tubing diameter dimensions of a Bb trumpet or Cornet, the Pedal C will slot approximately one and a half steps low (it'll sound around an A). It can be forced into tune (or closer to it in your case). While it can be forced all the way up to the C pitch, it's usually best not to try to at first. If you force it up the wrong way (over-tightening your lips and creating a thin, buzzy sound) it'll do more harm than good. The proper way to get it into tune is to put a lot of air through the horn and use the air properly to move it up in pitch. This takes time (as in months or even years for some). And again, for what we want the Pedal Notes to do for us (help correct embouchure deficiencies, learn to blow while staying relaxed, develop more control over the instrument, etc.) there's no need to force the Pedal C through Pedal Gb into pitch (though as you get down toward the Pedal Gb the notes get easier to play closer and closer to the correct pitch). Just let them lay flat and strive to get a big, full sound on them.

Once you get down to the Double Pedal F you'll find it and the notes below it very easy to play in tune (these notes have no slot as they are below the fundamental tones of each valve position). Play all pedal and double pedal notes with the same fingering as the lowest normal octave on the trumpet.

Note that if you play a Pedal C on a Flugelhorn it'll play right in pitch. This is due to the greater difference in the ratio of the leadpipe diameter to the bell tubing diameter. Pedal C also plays in pitch on a French Horn, Tuba or a Bass Trombone for the same reason.

The way Claude Gordon taught us to play Pedal Notes and use them for development is the best way to learn and use them. His method book Systematic Approach to Daily Practice for Trumpet and his short text book Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing contain excellent descriptions of the pedal register and instructions on how to use that register correctly.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
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[bach_again]

[kalijah]

[Robert P]

I would rank this or anything related to pedal tones close to the bottom of the list of things to work on or be concerned about.
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[snichols]

Having taken a lesson with a major symphony principal that advocated pedal note practice, I expressed the same concern: that I can't get that resonant pedal C played open. He said not to worry about it, because neither could he. That was all I needed to hear to stop worrying about it.

[TKSop]

[BGinNJ]

I've dabbled with bigger mouthpieces (5C, 1D) but that's not much help (or really the solution). I find I do about as well with a Warburton 4SV cup, though it's a little fussier from middle C to low F#.

I've tried the Systematic Approach in the past, so playing pedals isn't new to me. What my instructor is leading me to do with slurring them is to eliminate the break between partials, which I've already found works great in the upper register.

I like the more resistance, more air ideas, I'll give those a try.

[chuck in ny]

good discussion here a while back about hitting the open G below pedal C and then working the pitch up. i am giving this approach a go. the key is to be very patient and take plenty of sessions getting the pitch raised. your lips and mental feedback cycle will do this for you.
two weeks is a good start. keep with it for the duration.

[rufflicks]

Some info here might help.



Link


Best, Jon
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Remember this is supposed to be fun.

[gstump]

Petal C comes and goes. Blow it up to pitch. It will still sound different. No biggie.

Petals are great for relaxing the lips, cleaning up the buzz after hard playing. I do them but do not really see how they relate to high notes. They are low notes.
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[Andy Del]

[BGinNJ]

^ snarky, thanks for that. Practicing more and harder is not the answer if YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.

I appreciate the informative answers about the natural pitch of that note- I did find using a mute brought it on pitch, and helped a bit with the break going to that partial, which is what I'm really working on more than the pedal note itself.

[Seymor B Fudd]