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casivake718
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 Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject: Trumpet compression |
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| Can someone explain to me what is compression and how to do it. I always hear that to play the upper register, you need compression. I don't know what they mean by that. The only thing I know what to do that helps my upper register is wedge breathing. Other than that, I just think, less is more and other mental things like that. I would like to learn about compression, how to do it and how to use it properly. |
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GeorgeB
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:54 am Post subject: |
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A trumpet needs good compression to play any range properly. Open and close the first and third slides, then depress the valves and you should hear a popping sound. This is one way of checking for compression on your instrument.
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Don Herman rev2
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: |
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The OP is talking about lip compression, air compression. not the horn...
There are a myriad threads on this and how to, how much, or even if you need to think about "compression" is quite a debate. And it is tough to say without seeing and hearing you play just what might work for you. It is as easy to over-do compression as anything else, sacrificing efficiency and tone for range, or mucking up other facets of your playing.
I think it would be better of you described a bit more about where you are and where you want to be range- and music-wise before getting a bunch of random mostly physically-oriented answers.
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rufflicks
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casivake718
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| Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Don Herman rev2 wrote: | The OP is talking about lip compression, air compression. not the horn...
There are a myriad threads on this and how to, how much, or even if you need to think about "compression" is quite a debate. And it is tough to say without seeing and hearing you play just what might work for you. It is as easy to over-do compression as anything else, sacrificing efficiency and tone for range, or mucking up other facets of your playing.
I think it would be better of you described a bit more about where you are and where you want to be range- and music-wise before getting a bunch of random mostly physically-oriented answers.
My 0.000001 cent (microcent) - Don |
I've been playing trumpet for 2 years and I have a good range for orchestral playing (up to high d nornally) but not for a lead trumpet in jazz band. Since it's my senior year and the lead trumpet last year graduated, I'll be playing 1st. High d is the highest I can play when actually playing at a performance. I can go up to a double G when practicing at home but not when in front of a music stand at gig/performance. My music teacher gave us music last year where 1st trumpet played up to a high f# (note below double g) for 1st trumpet in jazz band. So I hope learning about compression can help me out to actually play above a high d at a performance not only at home practicing. Hope I'm not confusing. |
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rufflicks
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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You are not confusing in your post text it as it is contextually associated with the High Range development forum page. The title misleads the reader. If you wrote, Range and Compression? There would have been no contextual mis cue.
So moving forward compression is key I hope my video held in some way. A varied range routine like cross training for a sport will help. You need to be able to approach these notes in every possible manner. Using a variety of exercises better prepares you for the challenges music presents. Range studies should include slurred and tongued scales, intervals, arpeggios, overtone studies/flexibilities and repeated single pitch exercises.
Here is a link to a playlist that might help.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjtQbOLXI0BB_2bn5GjxlWCYsEM8DDVTH
Best, Jon
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mm55
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 am Post subject: |
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"Compression", as used here on TH has so many varied and inconsistent meanings that it's hard to tell what it means. For example, the replies here don't really contain clear definitions. It's even more vague than "core".
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zaferis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think you're trying to wag the dog from the tail...
Compression happens when you play the trumpet, which varies from the low register to the high. If you're trying to manage compression you will inevitably create too much and strain/overwork.
If you are using good technique and approach to playing compression happens-when Jon is talking about tongue position to create compression the compression is a result of good support and tongue position (and, of course, practice and repetition).
Just like in singing, how much compression do you use to sing a high note verses a lower one?? Who knows? You sing the note.. good posture, air, and tone->vowel shape=tongue arch.
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Extending your range takes time. From what you've told of your abilities I think it's somewhat unlikely that you'll have a reliable F# in a short period of time. While I won't discourage you from doing all you can to improve your range, in the interim you need to make peace with your limitations. Plan ahead and figure out where it makes sense to take things down an octave, tacit, or reharmonize. The last thing you want to do it throw yourself at notes you can't play. You can't lead if you're working beyond your abilities. Don't try to be a hero at the expense of the group and your own development. Better to be really good to D than really bad to F#.
And your best hope for range improvement in the shortest amount of time is to get with the right pro level teacher.
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scottfsmith
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Heres a good video on three different forms of compression needed to get high notes out that I found a few days ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22k_eacohto
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rufflicks
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casivake718
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| Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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I can feel a difference because of this. Trying it out in my practicing today made my notes above a high D a lot more resonant without pushing the mouthpiece to my lips. Hopefully if I keep practicing like this, I can actually play above a high d at an actual performance. |
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kalijah
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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This video contributes to the confusion that mm55 mentioned.
The problem is Charlie's erroneous quasi scientific explanations, since he is obviously attempting to define "compression" as air pressure.
While aperture control and tongue movement (which is related to aperture muscular actions) ARE things involved in playing. Only the exhalation process creates air pressure.
Things that do NOT create or increase air pressure are the tongue, the aperture, or the instrument.
The tongue does not compress the air when plating normally with lung pressure as the air pressure source.
Air pressure, (or compression) is required to play. The amount required can be adjusted by the player and will depend on the efficiency of the player, the loudness of tone required. and to some degree the acoustics of the instrument.
Rufflicks wrote:
Yes, arching the tongue does help on ascending lip slurs and high notes. But it does NOT contribute to air compression. It actually reduces it a bit before the aperture. |
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VetPsychWars
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: |
Yes, arching the tongue does help on ascending lip slurs and high notes. But it does NOT contribute to air compression. It actually reduces it a bit before the aperture. |
I think it's because of the size of the oral cavity. It's all part of the resonant system. Who says that it's only from the lips through the horn? The oral cavity, sometimes the sinus, the throat and the lungs are also involved.
Don't know how to quantify that. People more educated than I do might know.
Tom
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kalijah
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Tongue arch is related to embouchure muscle effort. |
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Seymor B Fudd
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Trumpet compression |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | Can someone explain to me what is compression and how to do it. I always hear that to play the upper register, you need compression. I don't know what they mean by that. The only thing I know what to do that helps my upper register is wedge breathing. Other than that, I just think, less is more and other mental things like that. I would like to learn about compression, how to do it and how to use it properly. |
Sensing I'm entering a mine-field I began to think of a balloon! Then inflating it just a little, and then just letting the air hiss out. No special sound, not even some horseflapping; now imagine inflating it much and then same procedur: typical horseflapping sound; and again same procedure but this time pincing so as to stretch the "exit". A squeaking sound no doubt!
Then make the analogy of blowing air through your lips. The "exit" pincing corresponding to the aperture! So, the only reason a high tone would be the "shutter" opening?
Just wondering 
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Lionel
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Trumpet compression |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | Can someone explain to me what is compression and how to do it. I always hear that to play the upper register, you need compression. I don't know what they mean by that. The only thing I know what to do that helps my upper register is wedge breathing. Other than that, I just think, less is more and other mental things like that. I would like to learn about compression, how to do it and how to use it properly. |
I havent seen many good answers to your question over the years. It could be divided into two basic categories
1. Compression of the air stream.
2. Compression of those facial muscles which allow the pressurized air stream to allow higher notes to sound.
If you mean number 1? A simple concept if not so much followed. As Ive seen even well established veteran pros cut off the air supporr. They dont do this as much as the rest of us. But everyone cuts off the air at some time or another. Natural tendency. Nervousness, fear and poor breathing habits all lead to at least an occassional tendency to shut off the air. Usually resulting in a weaker performance. Even clams.
Aa for number 2? It could be said that most of the muscular compression must occur outside the mouthpiece. As when you start tightening up the vibrating surfsce? The sound either suffers or cuts out completely.
As for what are the proper muscles to compress? That answer could vary from one to the next. And would involve a very complex analysis of the defining muscles. That and a very technical and equally complex description of embouchure function. Which probably half the viewing gallery would disagree with anyway. Trumpet players tend to very ego driven know-it-all's. You can always tell a trumpet player but you cant tell him much.
I have associates who burn their chops out in a half hour playing third cornet charts. While I can blow a four hour lead gig at a tessitura a clear octave higher than they can even play in for thirty seconds. And yet even these poor fools will regularly offer me advice on how to improve my upper register. Incredible!
Thus the appeal of simple high note programs like "just use the air".
It doesnt tell you much but probably works better on average thsn any well known systems.
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dstdenis
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | Can someone explain to me what is compression and how to do it. I always hear that to play the upper register, you need compression. I don't know what they mean by that. |
The ITG Journal used to have a science desk editor, Thomas Moore, who contributed lots of articles on the science behind trumpet playing. (I believe Professor Moore is still on the editorial committee.) OP's question reminded me of two of his articles:
What is Impedance and Why Do We Care?, ITG Journal, Oct 2002.
The Science of Playing Above the Staff, ITG Journal, Oct 2007.
Short version: when we play the trumpet, our lips vibrate to send a pressure wave through the trumpet. He's not talking about airflow, but a pressure wave of sound. When this wave reaches the end of the bell, most of it is reflected back through the instrument and synchronizes the vibration of our lips to the frequencies designed into the horn for that particular valve combination. This feedback, or resistance to letting the pressure wave escape, is called impedance. The greater the impedance, the easier the note is to play. We're playing the horn, but the horn is also playing us with feedback that makes it easier to keep our lips vibrating the note we want.
The impedance provided by the trumpet is greatest in the middle range of the instrument. As we play higher notes, the trumpet provides less feedback. Go high enough, and the player is doing most of the work without much help from the instrument at all.
You might have seen videos by Lynn Nicholson in which he plays super high notes on just a mouthpiece rim. This isn't such a crazy idea—it requires a strong embouchure and a forceful airstream to make the lips vibrate and produce such high notes. This exercise is relevant because the trumpet wouldn't help much with such high notes anyway.
When trumpeters talk about "compression" for playing high notes, they're usually talking about that forceful airstream.
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cheiden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Seems to me that trumpet players typically refer to the perceived blowing resistance as pressure. This is slightly different than the perception of compression which is often defined in terms of the ability to manipulate the air stream by lips, tongue or both with the idea that a particular type of manipulation aids playing higher and more efficiently when doing so. This reinforces the previous post that indicates that the trumpet generates useful resistance in the lower register (so the player doesn't have to) and that because the trumpet does not generate much useful resistance in the upper register it's up to the player to generate this resistance. Less skilled players have a hard time generating this useful compression because it's not needed down lower. And pinching the embouchure and arm pressure are usually employed as a poor substitute.
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: Trumpet compression |
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| casivake718 wrote: | | Can someone explain to me what is compression and how to do it. I always hear that to play the upper register, you need compression. I don't know what they mean by that. The only thing I know what to do that helps my upper register is wedge breathing. Other than that, I just think, less is more and other mental things like that. I would like to learn about compression, how to do it and how to use it properly. |
What many use the word "compression" to describe, involves the fact that to climb higher in range we blow harder, we arch our tongues (hopefully) which narrows the air stream into a tiny but powerful jet-like stream just before it hits our lips, and we tighten the muscles of our face and lips to resist the empowered air stream. Doing all this causes a significant increase in the level of our thoracic air pressure (the air pressure in our lungs, trachea and oral cavity). One of the results of this (besides higher notes) is that we turn red in the face when playing extreme high notes. This is because while doing so, our thoracic pressure is higher than our venous blood pressure and blood is prevented from flowing out of our heads as quickly as it is entering our heads.
The videos posted earlier in this topic thread by Jon and the one Scott posted made by Charlie Porter provide excellent and accurate information and you should watch them and study them carefully, several times each.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
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