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AwesomeDad
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 Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: Comfortable rim |
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For some reason the search function never goes past the first page of results so I apologize if this is a popular topic.
But I'm looking for suggestions on a mouthpiece with a more comfortable rim. Currently using a Yamaha 16C4 and will probably pick up a 14B4 but if there are more comfortable rim set ups I'm open... (stork has been suggested)
Now if the Yamahas are considered comfortable then I'll stick with it. Just know I don't like the Bach mp's.
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Andy Cooper
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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The problem is - virtually every rim is comfortable for someone.
This gets better response if you can tell us how your current rim feels "uncomfortable" or performance issues you have after a heavy practice session.
There are a lot of factors that contribute to comfort - rim contour, "undercut", even the throat and backbore size can cause problems.
Naturally I think the rim I have been on for a few years is the most comfortable rim ever - but that doesn't help you unless you have the same screwy dental structure that I have.
I find it hard to believe but someone out there likes the Bach 10 1/2 CW. I on the other hand use a rim contour which is the total reverse - a flat rim that has the highpoint on towards the outside of the mouthpiece then slopes in.
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chrisf3000
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| This is where someone like Greg Black is fantastic. His mouthpieces are handmade in his shop, so every part is customizable. I had no idea that rim shape was so important - it can change how the whole mouthpiece feels. Is it pricier than a Bach or Yamaha mp off the shelf? Sure, but you get what you pay for! |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I'm not sure that I've ever played a more comfortable rim than that of Legend mouthpieces. But you know, don't you, that you also might give up some other parameter, (like accuracy) with too 'comfortable a rim?
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zaferis
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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I find the 16C4 (and 14C4) to have a pretty sharp bite.. the Yamaha 14B4 is an excellent choice - you may, however, find it to be too small in comparison...
How about something in between. Curry 3C. . smaller than your 16 and larger than the 14, with less bite.
My path to playing on Curry 3 rims went something like: began on a 10.5C, moved to a 7C, then a 1.5C in college, in the AF Band tried Warburton 4, then Reeves 43 (blew out my chops) .. Went to a Yamaha 14B4 (loved it for many years in the USAF Bands) then found Curry 3 rims. Been on them since. - wish I had found them earlier.
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AwesomeDad
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | I find the 16C4 (and 14C4) to have a pretty sharp bite.. the Yamaha 14B4 is an excellent choice - you may, however, find it to be too small in comparison...
How about something in between. Curry 3C. . smaller than your 16 and larger than the 14, with less bite.
My path to playing on Curry 3 rims went something like: began on a 10.5C, moved to a 7C, then a 1.5C in college, in the AF Band tried Warburton 4, then Reeves 43 (blew out my chops) .. Went to a Yamaha 14B4 (loved it for many years in the USAF Bands) then found Curry 3 rims. Been on them since. - wish I had found them earlier. |
This is close to what I'm thinking, I also feel the 16C4 has to much bite. Now I'm primarily a tuba player and I know you can't equate the two but I'm wanting something the feels flatter if that's the right word against my lips.
I guess I'm curious never got wrapped up in cups, and rims etc so why does changing from a C to a B in a 14 change the rim? Can you not get something with the cup of the 16C4 and rim of a 14B4? Or does the cup depth necessitate a sharper rim angle?
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zaferis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| AwesomeDad wrote: |
This is close to what I'm thinking, I also feel the 16C4 has to much bite. Now I'm primarily a tuba player and I know you can't equate the two but I'm wanting something the feels flatter if that's the right word against my lips.
I guess I'm curious never got wrapped up in cups, and rims etc so why does changing from a C to a B in a 14 change the rim? Can you not get something with the cup of the 16C4 and rim of a 14B4? Or does the cup depth necessitate a sharper rim angle?
JJ |
Not necessarily... there are a bunch of factors in play, including the assumption that a 16C rim is the same shape a s a 16B. or a Bach 3C rim is the same as other 3's... not a standard with many makers. (IMO a Yamaha 14C4 rim has a different shape than a 14B4 plus the cup depth adds to the shaper feel)
One of the many reasons i like Curry's mouthpieces - the rims within a size range "feel" the same regardless of cup shape & depth.
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Last edited by zaferis on Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GeorgeB
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Comfortable rims, boy, that sure is a can of worms. What's comfortable for one player is a lip cutter for another.
I'm an old guy with one crooked lower tooth that causes one small area of my lower lip to take a beating with any mp with even a moderately sharp bite. I've tried a lot, including a Curry standard and a 600 series rim, and they all did a job on my lower lip: all except the Bach 5C. Yes, I had to work on my accuracy, but it fits me and my crooked tooth to a tee.
So there you go, what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander.
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dstdenis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: |
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As others have mentioned, "comfortable rim" will mean something different to different players, esp. those with thick/full lips compared to others with thin/small lips. The first kind sometimes prefer rims that are thinner/rounder, while the second type generally need rims that are wider/flatter.
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Richard III
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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Your perception of rim comfort is heavily influenced by the rim diameter. Imagine a simple pucker and bring the mouthpiece to those lips. A very large diameter will make you feel in the inner edge more. A very small diameter you will feel the flat area of the mouthpiece. Simple logic. So the goal is to get the right size.
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AwesomeDad
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| Richard III wrote: | | Your perception of rim comfort is heavily influenced by the rim diameter. Imagine a simple pucker and bring the mouthpiece to those lips. A very large diameter will make you feel in the inner edge more. A very small diameter you will feel the flat area of the mouthpiece. Simple logic. So the goal is to get the right size. |
So that begs the question can you get that with a deeper cup or is rim size proportional to cup depth?
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Richard III
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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A good example of selection is Curry. He has a range of cup shapes, depths and bores with each diameter.
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AwesomeDad
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: |
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Ok so to use Yamaha number I believe what I'm looking for is the 14B4 rim with the cup size of the 16C4. And go...
JJ |
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TKSop
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Does it have to be the size of the 16C4?
On the basis that 16C4 is basically the Yamaha equivalent of a Bach 1.5c (and I've used lots mouthpieces in that size range in the past) I'd say the most comfortable rim's I've come across in that size were (in order, for me) from Patrick (1.5C), Hammond (4ML), Reeves (43C), Curry (1.5C - the 3C isn't much smaller at all though) and I didn't have any issues with a Pickett 2C rim either.... I didn't get on with the Yamaha 16C4 at all...
Having been through a lot of pieces in that size, I'd recommend the Patrick without a moments hesitation - it was simply the best one for my playing, and it felt great to play too. |
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AwesomeDad
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| TKSop wrote: | Does it have to be the size of the 16C4?
On the basis that 16C4 is basically the Yamaha equivalent of a Bach 1.5c (and I've used lots mouthpieces in that size range in the past) I'd say the most comfortable rim's I've come across in that size were (in order, for me) from Patrick (1.5C), Hammond (4ML), Reeves (43C), Curry (1.5C - the 3C isn't much smaller at all though) and I didn't have any issues with a Pickett 2C rim either.... I didn't get on with the Yamaha 16C4 at all...
Having been through a lot of pieces in that size, I'd recommend the Patrick without a moments hesitation - it was simply the best one for my playing, and it felt great to play too. |
Can you give a link? I'm not familiar with them?
JJ |
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mm55
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | But you know, don't you, that you also might give up some other parameter, (like accuracy) with too 'comfortable a rim? |
An excellent point. For many years, I played a Schilke 18. It was recommended by my first freshman-year teacher, and it was so comfortable that I stuck with it for decades. I still find it the most comfortable rim for me. But about 10-12 years ago, I started playing a lot more funk and rock, and I explored mouthpieces that weren't as tiring. During that safari, I ended up putting the sound above comfort and endurance. I just found that I could get a much better sound with a Curry 3C. than with any more comfortable Schilke or less comfortable Bach.
Eventually, I went with all Curry 3. rims, C or M cup for trumpet, FL cup for flugel, and BBC cup for cornet. In almost all cases, it was because I got the sound I liked. Comfort is good, especially for long hours of playing. But it shouldn't be the only criterion.
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giakara
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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Some of the harder working pros in the market use Reeves pieces and one of the reasons is that he makes some of the most comfortable rims , call at the shop and they help you to choose the right one for you.
Regards
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Vin DiBona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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AwesomeDad.
Want to learn what does what? Go here: https://www.bachbrass.com/application/files/4614/8521/7763/AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf
Vincent Bach knew a thing or two about mouthpiece. His designs are copied by just about everyone. Some make their adjustments to suit what they feel may have been an "issue" with Bach's design.
He would put some sharpness on some rims to remind players they may not be at the proper angle. You can also see it is utter foolishness for an average, comeback, or beginner player to play anything above a 3 size. Those ain't for folks who cannot play well.
My suggestion is to go to the website of manufacturers to see what they say.
Here are some to search for.
GR mouthpieces
Karl Hammond
Schilke Music Products
Marcinkiewicz
There are many more to find.
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cheiden
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| AwesomeDad wrote: | Ok so to use Yamaha number I believe what I'm looking for is the 14B4 rim with the cup size of the 16C4. And go...
JJ |
I'd recommend you try a stock 14C4 before worrying about a custom piece. And FWIW all of the Yamaha "4" rims feel very similar and comfortable to me. I have no problem playing a Bach 3C rim on trumpet, Yamaha 14F4 on the flugel and a Yamaha 11C4 or 11B4 on the picc.
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AwesomeDad
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| Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: | | AwesomeDad wrote: | Ok so to use Yamaha number I believe what I'm looking for is the 14B4 rim with the cup size of the 16C4. And go...
JJ |
I'd recommend you try a stock 14C4 before worrying about a custom piece. And FWIW all of the Yamaha "4" rims feel very similar and comfortable to me. I have no problem playing a Bach 3C rim on trumpet, Yamaha 14F4 on the flugel and a Yamaha 11C4 or 11B4 on the picc. |
I may do that, I was just told by Yamaha that the 14B4 rim isn't as sharp as the 14C4 so I may give up a little cup depth for rim comfort. I'm going test playing tomorrow.
JJ
Last edited by AwesomeDad on Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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