Wild Thing valves

[pepperdean]

I've had my Wild Thing for about a year so I've put some miles on the valves and they still drive me crazy. I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience and found some solution.

At first, I thought the valves just needed breaking in (which they would) and I plugged away. Frustrating, I still experience sticking, sluggish valves. Maybe they're tight and it's a good thing but when a 2nd or 3rd valve doesn't want to go down momentarily or comes up slowly, it's not fun.

My horn is clean. I keep it that way. I alternate between time with Clean-Stroke Valve Wash and Monster Faster Oil and this has given me the best results.

I've owned many horns and played them in many types of venues and never had a problem with valves. I don't think it's me.

Alan

[mm55]

I bought my Wild Thing used. It was obviously very well cared for. The seller said he had to have a complete valve rebuild. He was reluctant to discuss the details, but he named a well-known master technician, and the valves are just fine now.
_________________
'75 Bach Strad 180ML/37
'79 King Silver Flair
'07 Flip Oakes Wild Thing
'42 Selmer US
'90 Yamaha YTR6450S(C)
'12 Eastman ETR-540S (D/Eb)
'10 Carol CPT-300LR pkt
'89 Yamaha YCR2330S crnt
'13 CarolBrass CFL-6200-GSS-BG flg

[shofarguy]

Some Kanstul valves can be problematic. Have you talked to Flip about the problem? He has some suggestions and may be willing to examine the horn for you.Go that route before trying someone else, even Kanstul. Flip is very good about keeping the horns that bear his name in good working order.

If I were you, I would call his business number and talk to him. He still is having trouble with seeing, so he may miss your email among the large number he receives every day.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[pepperdean]

Thanks, Brian,

I was unaware of Flip's vision problem. I had sent him an email on another small issue a while back and never got a response. That's the reason I hadn't tried to contact him. I will now.

Alan

[shofarguy]

[chuck in ny]

the first thing is don't assume that this or that oil will work. clean the horn and use hetman 1. that will work in the WT. it likes some oils, and doesn't like others.

[yourbrass]

[tom turner]

Hi Alan,

I've had mine since early 2001, a four-digit Wild Thing with the old, simple block letters on the bell. I've babied the horn the best I could and it still looks great. I always wipe my valves down with lint-free cheesecloth, and then apply good oil, like Benge provided and recommended back in the very early '70s.

Fast-forward sixteen years and the horn still looks great and the valves have never let me down. Of course, it has a lot of miles on those valves today so eventually I got some moisture in the bottom of the caps, so I just went with the next thicker Hetmans oil. It is good stuff.

I haven't had any problems with any of my Wild Thing valves either (I've got a shepherd's crook short cornet, Bb Celebration, C trumpet and a Wild Thing fluglehorn too). The only thing I would change if I could alter time would be to have Flip making them back in the 60's forward. That would have made things more fun!

Lint-free cheesecloth, or even just a very clean white t-shirt pieces might be something to try, so you can get all the darker residue off the valve, followed by fresh oil might make a difference. Of course, if there is any debris at all it can lock up a valve so keep the material clean. Tiny zip-lock bags are great so you can keep clean pieces in your case.

All the best, Tom
_________________
Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

[pepperdean]

Thanks to all for the replies. After a little more experimentation, I'm going to call Flip. Being a new horn, I guessed the valves were tight and, when encountering problems, went to "faster" or thinner oils. I never considered that they might be loose, thus needing a thicker oil.

Just this afternoon, the third valve was hanging up a little - what happens is similar to a young student pushing the valve down at a sideways angle. All of a sudden, the valve will resist momentarily or will hesitate before coming back up. Anyway, I removed the valve from the horn, cleaned it carefully, oiled it and went back to playing. It was acting up again within ten minutes.

Still, I love the horn and the sound and don't want to put it away.

On a side note, I'm sorry to hear about Flip and the shingles. They're not fun. My bout with that nastiness attacked the side of my face and right side of my embouchure. Whether it was the temporary paralysis of the shingles or my determination to keep playing. I'm just getting my playing back to a good level after several years of work.

Alan

[shofarguy]

One of my two WT flugelhorn and my Kanstul 1025 both had one tight valve each that gave me trouble for about 18 months. After that, the valves worked fantastically. That time frame was for instruments that didn't get full-time play.

Flip suggested frequent and generous oiling (more than daily) and frequent swabbing of the pistons and barrels over the first two weeks or so. If that didn't do it, he told me to apply a coat of Vaseline to the pistons, add oil and work them like crazy.

A thorough cleaning each week (or more often) to get out any metal residue was also suggested.

These regimen helped me through the break-in period and the results were really good.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[trumpet.sanity]

[Flip Oakes]

Alan,

I want to apologize, for not receiving or seeing your emails. Between the filters from the server, and all the junk mail I receive this sometimes happens, as I receive as much as 700 emails per day. Not to say it's been very difficult for me to see the screen, as it really hurts as to the brightness of the screen, and I have the screen turned way down. The shingles I got on my face has really effected my eyes. I can't go outside in the daylight as it's much to bright. Until yesterday my wife had to take me to Dr. appointments with me in the back seat, with a thick blindfold on. However yesterday I had an idea and went into a Welders supply and bought a really dark pair of welding glasses, and today I went outside. This has gone on since Christmas Day having the shingles in my face. This has been the most painful thing I have ever gone through.

I can always be reached by telephone as well, however I'm in California, so thats Pacific Time. If I don't answer, please leave a message, I'll return your call asap. 760-643-1501

I'm certain as long as your pistons haven't been buffed or messed with, this is s simple cure. Please read below. If you can't make this work, please send me the horn. However always call to make an appointment, as at times I'm out playing a Jazz Festival, or playing a Jazz Cruise.

Every Flip Oakes Bb Wild Thing Trumpet, ‘C’ Trumpet, Cornet, or Flugelhorn, is supplied with Flip Oakes Valve Oil, this is of the highest quality, it Is especially good as break in oil, as well as general usage. It has a mild detergent that will aid in removing traces of unwanted lapping compound that may be present in your horn after the final setup has taken place. This horn also has been Ultrasonically Cleaned, after the final setup, after all valve alignments, and enhancements have been made.

For Maintenance, and keeping your trumpet clean.

Use HOT soapy water for silver-plate, and, medium hot water, for lacquered, instruments. Disassemble and Submerse the trumpet in this solution, let it
soak for a brief period of time then, clean out the tubes with the trumpet cleaning snake, and valvecasing rod.

The Valve Cleaning Rod. This rod looks like a short gun cleaning rod that is supplied with every Wild Thing instrument sold, use this by
wrapping a piece of cotton, or flannel through and around this rod for swabbing out the valve casings. you need to do a few wrappings so that the
rod has to be tight when passing through the valve casings. This method is far more effective, rather then a valve cleaning brush. This cloth will collect slide grease residue, and grit that get’s passed through the trumpet as the valve oil breaks down the valve grease, and dirt that will collect on the horn and slides in the form of dust or dirt. This method is far more effective,
rather then a valve cleaning brush, also wipe the pistons with a clean cloth. I recommend this to be done quite often, as not to start a build up of residue
on the inside of the valve casings. Many times this residue is created from the slide grease as it gets broken down and washed through the horn as it’s
being played. I also recommend that you give this instrument a good cleaning once every 2-3 weeks. This is very important and will help in the playing consistency, and ensuring a longer lifetime of the instrument. After the cleaning, rinse the entire instrument, and all parts thoroughly, and wipe off dry with a soft cloth, and then re-assemble. Be certain to use slide grease on all of the slides, and valve oil on the pistons. Do not let the horn get too dirty on the inside, as this could detrimental to the playability and lifetime of this instrument. For Silver plate, use 3-M Tarni Shield Silver Polish when
needed, to aid in the protection of the silver plating. For lacquer, I like to spray some Pledge on the cloth and wipe on the instrument. Keeping your horn clean will help ensure a longer lifetime for this instrument.

Remember, if you want the trumpet to play and sound consistently, you need to keep the trumpet clean…….

Concerning the valve alignment be certain that it is maintained and not changed, or alter the pads. Underneath the top caps, that are numbered, there are markings showing the size of the spacers or washers that are needed to be used to keep the valve alignment in tact. The valve alignment pads are Buna ‘N’ Rubber 40 shore. There may also some other spacers, or thin washers as well, these are all used or needed for proper valve alignment. You’ll also notice that your finger button caps, are also numbered as well for the correlating piston, it’s important to keep them in their proper place as well, as they are all a intricate part of the valve alignment. The Buna ‘N’ rubber pads are .062” in thickness. The Buna ’N’ Rubber pads, are the most accurate, however may be replaced with .062” Felts.. Sometimes additional spacers are needed in addition to the .062” main Buna “N’ Rubber or Felts. For maintaining the proper alignment. Remember the correct thickness in total is marked on the underside of each individual top valve cap as to the upstroke. The down stroke will always be alright as long as you don’t change the rubber bumpers in the top caps themselves, and remember, these caps are all individually numbered underneath each cap. If the valve alignment is altered, it could cause inferior blow, intonation, and piston noise.

Never let anyone push anything down or into your mouthpiece receiver, or into your leadpipe, and also be certain not to strike the end of the
leadpipe with a worn mouthpiece or foreign object, as this can alter the blow, and sound of the instrument. Any mouthpiece of your choice will work just fine, as long as the shank hasn’t been worn so badly, to where it’s bumping up against the end of the lead pipe.
_________________
Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets�
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501


Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994

[pepperdean]

I want to report on what has transpired. Many thanks to Flip for his tips. I've returned to using the oil that accompanied the horn. A daily wipe-down of the valves and a thorough oiling has done the trick. Since I began that regimen, the valves have been flawless.

Alan

[snichols]

[shofarguy]

[cheiden]

I've only owned 3 horns that were bought new, two Strads and a Holton. The Strads definitely required regular wiping of the pistons and cylinders. For a good while the cleaning cloth would show a gray residue. When that residue stopped showing up then I was able to quit with the daily wipe down.

FWIW I bought a used Kansul picc and the valves still seemed pretty tight. My regular oils for the Bb did not work at all making them either hang or be too slow. I eventually went to Blue Juice and the valves have been behaving ever since.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[pepperdean]

As shofarguy suggested, the break-in period is complete and the valves are pretty cool. I used up all of Flip's oil and went back to my Monster Faster oil.

My initial reaction to the Monster, at this point, was not so exciting. The valves felt sluggish after a couple of days. I gave the valves a wipe down and tried some old T2 that I never liked on any of my other horns. Wow! I put in several hours on the horn most days and they feel slick and don't seem to need oil for about two weeks.

Maybe when the T2 is empty, the WT will be ready for something else. Meanwhile, I love this horn!

Alan

[Brent]

Kanstul's valves seems to be an issue that comes up periodically. The Kanstul horns I owned had mediocre valves at best. That's something they need to address, considering the competition (like Getzen, Carol, Adams, etc)
_________________
Brent

[pepperdean]

Brent, to be very clear, I have no issue with the valves. They're now fine. Break-in was more of a process than I've been used to with other horns but, once I'd followed Flip's directions to the bottom of the bottle he supplied, they're fine.

Probably would have been fine with a bottle of good bourbon too!

Alan

[Brent]

Alan:

Good to hear that, but the Kanstul valve issue, as I stated, has been a topic on this forum a number of times. They still make great horns, I'd just never buy one unless I knew the valves weren't going to be an issue.
_________________
Brent