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Brad361
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 Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Arturo Sandoval's take.... |
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On range, and other important aspects. I stumbled across this on Facebook, maybe most everyone has seen it, I hadn't.
https://www.facebook.com/paulthetrombonistfans/videos/1407279359378977/
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Russell Iser
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| Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah... saw this a while back. Very helpful. |
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Lionel
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| Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Arturo's words have merit. Musicianship is usually a primary ingredient of upper register development. However despite his words to the contrary he never really struggled with range.
Back when he was only in his teens we heard of this amazing talent from Cuba who could play a perfect fourth above Maynard. So if Arturo "struggled"? As he said in his featured video? It was only very early in his development.
A lot of gifted trumpet players still need a couple years or so to dial in all the coordinants of their chops. And some like Severinsen and Bergeron find it their first day behind the horn. Far more common is the person whose natural physiology is at war with his music. Doubt me?
Count the number of amateur trumpet players who you know who can not blow F above high C if their life depended upon it. Might be all the trumpet players who you know. Okay some of them may not practice very "efficiently". But a lot do. We surely dont see range limitations among reed players. Why so with so many trumpets?
And what about the high note jock? The kid who can only blow high notes but lacks a complete sense of musicality. Clearly he has poor fundamentals and lacks the sense of dedication Mr Sandoval insists is the prerequisite for playing in the upper register.
And yet he can still blow fat loud high notes while most of us can not. I submit that both the jock and the true high note virtuoso are what Doc Reinhardt referred to as a "physical accident". Someone who's physiology is not at war with his musical intents.
The great remainder of us may have to learn a good deal more about how to rewire our chops to play well and happily in the upper register. Im not saying that Mr Sandoval's statements are not without merit. However he comes from a perspective of greater natural ease of playing than the great majority of us. He's essentially telling you to "just work harder at it".
I say that hard work may help. Cant really do any harm unless we're ingraining bad habits. And yet if you are from among the less fortunate 98% who struggle?
Patience and perseverance alone may not be enough. Not if your natural chop setting blocks the production of high notes. This is just pure logic folks. For the great majority of trumpet players do have the natural tendency to block the production of F above high C. They will not play that note until they specifically address and correct that limitation.
Practicing "efficiently" though helpful in many ways may not correct a range cut off point. Only an understanding of the embouchure error followed by its correction will solve their range problem.
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Brad361
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:50 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with Lionel. I do think many trumpet players do need specific exercises/methods to increase range past E-F above the staff. Mr.Sandoval says he got there by sensible, efficient, dedicated and disciplined practice, I don't question that. But I don't really believe most of us could get anywhere near that without specific upper register practice....and of course most of us will never reach his overall skill level period. I absolutely believe that hard work will compensate for a lack of natural ability, but for most of us that extreme skill level is just not attainable.
Which of course doesn't mean we shouldn't try!
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:12 am Post subject: |
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What model trumpet is he playing ? Doesn't look like a Wild Thing ...
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scipioap
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Joined: 08 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: |
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| RussellDDixon wrote: | | What model trumpet is he playing ? Doesn't look like a Wild Thing ... |
It’s Harrelson-modified, with the Saturn water keys and Arturo’s cross.
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John Mohan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | I have to agree with Lionel. I do think many trumpet players do need specific exercises/methods to increase range past E-F above the staff. Mr.Sandoval says he got there by sensible, efficient, dedicated and disciplined practice, I don't question that. But I don't really believe most of us could get anywhere near that without specific upper register practice....and of course most of us will never reach his overall skill level period. I absolutely believe that hard work will compensate for a lack of natural ability, but for most of us that extreme skill level is just not attainable.
Which of course doesn't mean we shouldn't try!
Brad |
Yes, to get beyond a good E or F, specific exercises are required. The reason for this is for the average trumpet player, their physical blowing strength limits (the level of air pressure they can create) and to some extent their embouchure muscle strength tops out at about the level required to play a good E or F. Beyond that, if they have the knack (coordination of lips and tongue level) part of it, they can usually play a few steps higher, but the sound level diminishes rapidly because they are basically trading off sound volume for range, resulting in what Roger Spaulding (author of Double High C in 37 Weeks) called "teeny-weenie hardly audible wish-I-hadn't-made-the-attempt, squeek" notes.
Bear in mind that the sensible, efficient, dedicated and disciplined practice Arturo talked about included specific upper register practice. When he says in the video, "I never work on high notes" (gesturing with his hand to emphasis the word "work", I think he means he never obsesses about high notes. While developing his abilities he used the Maggio exercises and went through Claude Gordon's Systematic Approach to Daily Practice for Trumpet book. He told us at Claude's Honorary Doctorate ceremony at La Sierra University in the early '90's that he had a smuggled-in Systematic Approach book when he was still in Cuba that he used. Based on what he said during his interview with Jens Lindemann (available on YouTube), I believe that to this day, Arturo starts his day by going through what is basically the Part One and Part Two exercises from Lesson Two in Claude's Systematic Approach book (themselves based on Maggio's basic Pedal Note and High Note arpeggio exercises). Jon Faddis and Rashawn Ross both used similar range exercises to develop their upper registers. None of these people were born with the capabilities they developed.
Concerning Arturo's technical abilities and range capabilities on the trumpet, in my opinion his astonishing abilities in those areas are not in themselves astonishing. I think they are the result of truly dedicated, long term practice - he practiced all day every day for years, and years, and years. To me, that level of dedication is the astonishing part. As to his amazing levels of musician ship and artistic talent, that to me is a God-given gift. Though still, I am reminded of a story about a Farmer and a Preacher. I'll post it in full below.
It is telling in the video when Arturo says that he didn't have a good upper register for many years and struggled to play just High C and D above the staff. It is equally telling how he stresses the importance of practice, hard work and discipline. He had to work and practice to develop what he developed, the same as the rest of us.
We can find thousands of players who have unsuccessfully tried to build their range and techniques to the levels Arturo Sandoval has accomplished. But really, how many of those who have tried but failed, actually slowly built up their practice routine (over a period of years) to where they really practiced 6 or more hours a day for ten years or longer?? In my opinion, none.
Personally, if I just practice what I should practice every two or three days or so (sporadically) I maintain a good performance range to an F or G above High C (always an F, and a good G when fresh). But when I really dedicate myself and do a good, well-balanced routine every single day, my range (and other abilities) start growing again, slowly but surely. In 2004/2005 I stuck with it pretty much every day and the result was a performance quality DHC and I sometimes reached the G above DHC during my Systematic Approach Part Two exercises each day.
To me, Arturo is not some sort of freak of nature - to claim he is, is to sell what he's accomplished WAY short. What he can do, he's earned.
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested
P.S. Here's that story about the Farmer and the Preacher. I try to read it at least once a month.
| Quote: | The Farmer and the Preacher
By Earl Nightingale
There’s a classic old story about a conversation between a farmer and a preacher. The story goes that the preacher was driving down a country road when he came upon the most beautiful farm he’d ever seen in his lifetime spent traveling rural roads. He could only compare it to a beautiful painting. It was by no means a new farm, but the house and buildings were well constructed and in perfect repair and paint. A garden around the house was filled with flowers and shrubs. A fine row of trees lined each side of the white gravel drive. The fields were beautifully tilled, and a fine herd of fat dairy cattle grazed knee-deep in the pasture. The site was so arresting the preacher stopped to drink it all in. He had been raised on a farm himself, and he knew a great one when he saw it.
It was then he noticed the farmer, on a tractor, hard at work, approaching the place where the preacher stood beside his car. When the farmer got closer, the preacher hailed him. The farmer stopped the tractor, idled down the engine, and then shouted a friendly “hello!” The preacher said to him, “My good man, God has certainly blessed you with a magnificent farm.” And then, there was a pause as the farmer took off his cape and shifted in the tractor seat to take a look at his pride and joy. He then looked at the preacher and he said, “Yes, He has, and we’re grateful. But you should have seen this place when He had it all to Himself.”
Well, the preacher looked at the strong, friendly features of the farmer for a moment, smiled, and with a wave of his hand climbed back in his car and continued on his way. And he thought, that man has given me my sermon for next Sunday.
Every farmer along this road and in this country has been blessed with the same land, pretty much, and the same opportunity. Each has worked his farm according to his nature. Every farm, every home of every family in the country is the living reflection of the people who dwell in it. He understood that the land we’re given was not the acres we buy for our farm or the lot on which we build or buy a home, but rather the life we give it, what we do with what we have. Our lives are our plots of ground, and that’s the land we sow and from which we are then obliged to reap the resulting harvest. And the way we’ve sown will be reflected in every department of our lives.
Well, the farmer that the preacher had just talked to would reap an abundant harvest, not just when the time came for gathering his crops, but every time he looked around the place, every time he returned from town to that white gravel drive and trees that lined it and the fine home and gardens that stood at the end of it. He was grateful for what he had. But he knew that it was not what is given us that makes the difference, but rather what we do with it, what we make of what we have. Yes, sir, the preacher thought as he smiled and drove his car along the road to town. He had his sermon for next Sunday, and it would be a good one.
Each one of us is a farmer. Our lives are the plots of ground that have been given to us free and clear. If we’re wise, we too, will reap the abundant harvest, for the planting is left strictly to us.
Three Valuable Words
I was once interviewed by a man and his wife who were writing a book about well-known people who’ve overcome problems of various kinds in order to further their lives. I mentioned to him that everyone must overcome problems of various degrees and that people who are more or less in the public’s eye aren’t any more courageous than other people we may never hear about. In fact, the story of every life is a story of obstacles overcome.
But they wanted my story, so I told them of three words that had have been of incalculable help to me in reaching various goals. Whenever I became depressed and things seemed rather hopeless, I would always say to myself, “Stay with it.” “Stay with it” kept me going many times when it seemed the better part of valor to quit and settle for smaller goals. And it’s nothing more than persistence. To me, a personal reminder is always that persistence can accomplish almost anything.
The habit of persistence soon becomes the habit of winning. Every successful person’s story is the story of persistence, of “staying with it” day after day despite the problems and setbacks and mistakes and disappointments that seem to test our resolve from time to time. The power of a person’s persistence seems to be determined by the strength of his or her goal. We read and hear about people who sail around the world in a 30-foot sailboat and overcome handicaps to win a gold medal at the Olympic games, and sooner or later, we find their stories about persistence, of simply staying with it one day at a time.
I remember well the day that I sat down to write the first of my radio programs. That was more than 20 years ago. That was 5,200 programs ago, with about 700 words to the program; that’s 3,640,000 words ago. Or the equivalent of 36 full-size books ago. Now that’s certainly no world’s record, but a good example of what persistence can do all the same. I can recall that my friend Lowell Thomas’s study was completely lined with the bound copies of his broadcasts.
When we see the tired faces of commuters on the big city subway and children climbing aboard the school bus, we see persistence at work. We see it in the expression of the wife and mother doing her grocery shopping or the week’s laundry or preparing another meal. But everything we do contributes to the life we lead, the joys we experience, the satisfactions we realize from time to time, and persistence itself is a joy when we’re doing what we enjoy and want to do. But there are times when we need to remind ourselves: “Stay with it”. This is what I’ve chosen of my own free will to do, and so I’ll do it to the very best of my ability come what may.
So in the interview, it all seemed to come down to making up one’s mind about what one wants to do and then starting toward it and doing it every day, day after day, month after month, until one day you’ve got what you’ve set out to get, for good or bad, and it’s time to decide on another goal and head out on the new course. It all seems to be a matter of just staying with it. It’s not a very complicated success formula, is it? Just make up your mind what it is you want very much to have or to do, and get started. And when the going gets very tough, and it’s a bad, bad day, and you feel like giving up, you say to yourself, “Stay with it.”
Stay with it.
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Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
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Lionel
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Most trumpet players top out even lower than the high E and F John. In fact if just by sheer practice and development more trumpet players could blow a high F?
We wouldnt have even a third of the upper register problems we see today. If more trumpet players played a good high F? Most of them would probably stop seeking higher notes. But my eyes and ears have observed that the vast majority of trumpet players are stuck below significantly lower notes than the F.
I believe that there is a nearly universal and eaay correction for this problem. That within minutes the standard high D range limitation can be understood. And within a matter of hours be eliminated for good.
Doubt me? One of the proofs I submit to show the limitation of mere practice alone is the existence of the high note jock. Oh he's got high notes alright. Warms up with them. Tries to demonstrate them at every occassion. Loses friends and few people even want to play music with him. If only so they save their own eardrums.
The high note jock, a fortunately rare bird proves that intelligent practice does not necessarily equate with the production of a powerful upper register. Because the jock has a powerful upper register but hardly practices anything musical at all. His ability to blow high notes just exists as a natural fact. And he has no idea how he pulls it off.
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"Check me if I'm wrong Sandy but if I kill all the golfers they're gonna lock me up & throw away the key"!
Carl Spackler (aka Bill Murray, 1980). |
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John Mohan
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Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionel wrote: | | Most trumpet players top out even lower than the high E and F John. |
I know that Lionel. I should have been more clear. I meant that trumpet players who understand and have developed the knack for the use of proper tongue level can usually reach around a good F above High C. The vast majority of trumpet players though, can only reach around a High C, and it's usually a rather harsh and sporadic High C at that.
Several studies have shown that each octave climb on a brass instrument at a given volume of sound requires a doubling of the supplied air pressure. To get beyond the F above High C range usually requires extraordinary air power development.
Cheers,
John |
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Brad361
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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John,
Just to clarify what I may have been unclear about: I don't for one second think that Arturo Sandoval is someone who just happened to have natural attributes that made range easy l for him, I believe he worked as long and hard as any of you guys who get to a level where you can earn a good living as a full time player. My take from the video was that he was suggesting that his incredible range just came along with his regular practice routine, I probably misunderstood what he meant. At any rate, I sure would not argue with anyone at his extremely high skill level, obviously whatever he did worked for him.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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John Mohan
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 9830
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Brad361 wrote: | John,
Just to clarify what I may have been unclear about: I don't for one second think that Arturo Sandoval is someone who just happened to have natural attributes that made range easy l for him, I believe he worked as long and hard as any of you guys who get to a level where you can earn a good living as a full time player. My take from the video was that he was suggesting that his incredible range just came along with his regular practice routine, I probably misunderstood what he meant. At any rate, I sure would not argue with anyone at his extremely high skill level, obviously whatever he did worked for him.
Brad |
Hi Brad,
Oh no - I think Arturo worked and practiced much harder and for much longer than most of us pros - he certainly was and is more dedicated than me! Yes, at my peak I was practicing all day - but that was only from about 1983 until I went on the road with shows starting in 1987. Since then I've rarely devoted more than an hour to an hour and a half a day to the horn for individual practice. Compared to Arturo (and Wayne, and a bunch of others) I'm lazy. And I don't think it's a coincidence that their Union Pension Accounts and yearly earnings on the horn make mine look like a pittance... 
Concerning your take on the video: Your take was perfectly understandable and would be exactly how I would have interpreted what Arturo said if I didn't know some of those specifics about his practice routine from what he told us at that Reception more than 20 years ago. That's why I wrote what I wrote - to share what I had learned from Arturo in order to make the meaning of what he says on the video more clear.
His communicating that he never obsessed with high notes in his practice brings to my mind what Claude would say to me when I started fretting about high notes:
| Claude Gordon wrote: | | High notes are inevitable! If you're practicing correctly they'll develop right along with the rest of the machine. |
Cheers,
John
_________________
Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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