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jhatpro
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 Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: Flip Oakes Cornet |
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I'm hungering for a long cornet. If you own or have played a Flip Oakes American Long Cornet, what are your thoughts?
How would you compare it with other cornets, including King SilverSonic or other brands?
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Jim, you can borrow my Bach Strad 37 long cornet until the jones wears off.
Kent |
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Thanks, Kent! You should start a Help Line for brass addicts.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: |
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The Flip Oakes cornet appears to have a similar design as the Strad 181 but it has a larger bore size. The Strad is very mouthpiece sensitive so it's like having multiple horns in one case.
Kent |
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Oncewasaplayer
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:44 am Post subject: |
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The FO Long cornet is not a common horn. Many folks are lured over to the sexy curves of the FO short cornet. However I like this long cornet. It has an enormous bell and one needs to adjust some mutes to fit it properly. The build quality of the horn is excellent--no issues.
The blow is very very very open and that makes it a good match for some players. The mid to low register is dark and rich but it can brighten up as you move up above the staff. The openness makes it easy to play louder and with a large sound. Some say these qualities make it a good cross over horn for trumpet players who don't want to adjust to a tighter blow found on other cornets.
It's a good horn for playing trad jazz or even contemporary jazz in a small combo setting. In a ballad, you can let the sound be dark and rich. I think it could hold its own as a section horn in a big band although you'd get some looks from the other players simply because they'd see a cornet. This is not a BBB horn.
The trick is matching a cornet mouthpiece to the large bore open blow and striking a balance between your air, your sound and the setting.
You asked about the King Silversonic. King seems tighter and maybe brighter. My opinion changes every week, but I prefer the King for hot swing and for trad playing. I would choose the FO Long horn on days I feel strong.
What setting do you want a long cornet for?
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Great post - thanks! I'm looking for a horn with a big sound for trad and your description suggests it would be perfect for that.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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Richard III
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Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:44 am Post subject: |
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From the description above, I would suggest it is not the best choice for trad. jazz. When I hear players using a horn that has that type of sound, I find something missing. Describing the sound I like is difficult in words. I could give endless examples of players from Red Allen to Muggsy Spanier to Bobby Hackett or even Wild Bill. Do they sound the same? No. Who would I like to sound like? Allen without a mute. Spanier with a mute. Wild Bill when the moment is right and Hackett when featured on "that" kind of song. Also, the trad. cornet sound of the teens is not the same as the one from the revival of the 40's. So not even all trad. jazz has the same sound. Which one are you looking for?
The King I think would come much closer to the sound of the players above. The horn allows an approach to the playing that results in the sound. I find a large bore makes that process more difficult.
I notice that the players in New Orleans today doing that kind of music are using trumpets with a smaller bore. The sound is just easier to get that way and part of the sound is the vibrato, trills, growls and effects that are part of the music. I find those so much easier on a smaller bore horn, be it cornet or trumpet.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
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jhatpro
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: |
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Recommending horns is difficult because so much of what comes out of the horn depends on what's put into it. My Kings have always felt restrictive whereas my 80A with its larger bore feels great.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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dstdenis
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Is a huge sound really necessary for a traditional jazz combo? Most cornets would make it easy for the cornetist to be way out front with his/her sound without breaking a sweat. I'd want an instrument that would make it easy to get the sound I'm after while still balancing with a small combo. I suppose it depends on the size of the venues you'll play and whether you'll use a sound system.
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Some of you guys are making comments about the F.O. cornet and you've obviously never heard or played one. You are judging the instrument on specs you read on the internet and how they relate to your experience and I get it. How else would you judge? The key here is not to judge before you encounter the instrument.
Flip Oakes instruments do not follow the typical trends, as pertains to design specifications. The results are not the same. There are myriads of posts about this and his other models. Most of them try to do each horn justice by trying to explain what it is like to play one, but those of you who have yet to gain exposure never can relate. Often, you will write things like "drink the Kool-Ade" that dismiss what we write as "Honeymoon" excitement. It's not.
The Long Cornet is wrapped like the Bach mentioned above. The Short Cornet is wrapped like the old Benge 8Z. But everything else is unique and produces instruments that are very different and defy preconceptions.
If you really want to know what the Flip Oakes American Long Model Cornet is most like, I would steer you to the original-spec Wild Thing Bb Trumpet, which itself is a hybrid trumpet/cornet design. The Long Cornet is one step farther away from the ubiquitous trumpet and a big step toward a mixture of traditional jazz cornet with a pre-20th century band cornet flair.
Like the WT trumpet, the large bore and bell of the American Long Cornet take away the tight nasally sound that many trumpets and cornets have (necessitating a big deep mouthpiece cup to compensate), without sounding tubby or dull. It is a full-spectrum sound, not just a "dark" sound.
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Richard III
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Hi Brian,
I tried to find one being played in that type of band on YouTube but couldn't find it. Can you point to a video that we can see and hear what it sounds like?
Thanks.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
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Oncewasaplayer
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delano
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| A simple older (made in Japan) Yamaha YCR 231 or 2310 has the same specs and can do the job. A very open blow, an enormous bell, a very good (Schilke) design make a very loud horn. Easy blow and a strong dark sound in low and middle and brighter high up. I bought one like new for 140 dollars. So you can save a lot of money. But you will need a mouthpiece with a tight backbore. |
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Oncewasaplayer
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l00Oz1Ayxqs
notes say this is an experimental FO horn blending short and long qualities.
How would you describe this sound? I would say, dark. I like it.
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Richard III
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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He sounds like he's fighting the cornet the whole way. And the sound is not optimal in my feelings of what I would want to sound like.
I have a Conn 80A with a custom copper bell. It does not sound right with this kind of music either. Nor does my shepherd's crook.
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Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
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Flip Oakes
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Location: Oceanside, CA USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| delano wrote: | | A simple older (made in Japan) Yamaha YCR 231 or 2310 has the same specs and can do the job. A very open blow, an enormous bell, a very good (Schilke) design make a very loud horn. Easy blow and a strong dark sound in low and middle and brighter high up. I bought one like new for 140 dollars. So you can save a lot of money. But you will need a mouthpiece with a tight backbore. |
The cornet mentioned above and the Flip Oakes Wild Thing American Model Cornet, have nothing in common short of they use cornet mpcs....
That's just what we need around here is more misinformation...
Flip Oakes
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Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501
Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994
Last edited by Flip Oakes on Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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oxleyk
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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No, it has a shepherd's crook. It that a third cornet that Flip makes?
Kent |
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Flip Oakes
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| oxleyk wrote: |
No, it has a shepherd's crook. It that a third cornet that Flip makes?
Kent |
Kent,
Yes, that cornet in the video, was the 1st. shepherd's crook prototype short model made. I gave it to my dad, when my dad passed away in 1998, I then gave it to Dave Long, who was at that time my webmaster for my website. Dave is friend, though not a professional player. He goes out and sits in where he can for kicks.
I only now have 2 cornets that I offer.
Both of my Wild Thing Cornets have the same valve block, bell, and leadpipe, however they are both quite different from each other.
The short model, has a true cornet blow, and it has a bigger size of sound, thats somewhat warmer, and more gentle in sound as to the attack..... Very dark, and fluid in sound. Plays very well in tune....
The long model has more of a trumpet blow to it. When you play it feels like a trumpet, but sounds like a cornet, as its fuller, and bigger sounding then the trumpet. Its warm, not as dark as the short model, and has somewhat of an edge on the sound, unlike the short model, that really has no edge to the sound. Its a more aggressive in sound and attack, but not like a trumpet..... For jazz playing, I would play the American Model. I have played both in Dixieland situation. Heres the difference. If I were playing in a soft smaller Dixieland Band, then the short model works great... However if its a larger or louder band, then I would select the American model... If I were playing mainstream jazz I would select the American model...
The American model, the way its laid out has a shorter leadpipe, and a longer bell then the short model. So then the short model has a longer leadpipe, and a shorter bell. Okay now if the bell is shorter, then the bell is cut shorter, which makes the tail of the bell larger then the American model..... The shorter bell, and more open tail, is what gives the short model a somewhat warmer, darker, and more gentle sound..... Its also a somewhat bigger sound in size as well..
So it really depends on what your wanting in a cornet, to decide which you would choose.
If your a trumpet player who doubles on cornet, then my choice would be the American model. Its an easy double, sounds great, and plays very easy...
However if your a REAL cornet player, and thats your main instrument, or a cornet soloist, then nothing touches the short model. IMHO, theres not a cornet on the market that will touch either of my cornets..... Again they are as different, as my trumpets are... Same contrast, but in cornets...
Wild Thing American Cornet http://flipoakes.com/trumpets-cornets-flugelhorns/wild-thing-american-cornet/
The Flip Oakes Wild Thing American Long Model Cornet offers the ultimate in the powerful, rich, open, dark, sound, of the 1940s 1950s Jazz. When cornet players need more, this horn is the ideal choice for the jazz soloist.
It has an open blow, incredible intonation, and lightening fast response that is very even throughout all registers! When playing in the style of Bobby Hackett, Wild Bill Davison, or Rex Stewart, performing in a jazz club, New Orleans style parade, large concert hall, or a church, this horn has it!
Whether youre playing, Pete Kellys Blues, Thats a Plenty, or Groovin High!!
This Cornet is the BOSS!!!
Key of Bb
.470 Bore
5″ Brass Bell
1st & 3rd Slide Stops
Nickel outer slides
2 Amado Water Keys
Hand Fitted Monel Pistons.
Brass Finger Buttons.
Includes Pro Tek Single Case
Your choice either Flip Oakes WT mpc. Or Mark Curry DC mpc.
Sizes from largest to smallest: #FO, #1, #1.25, #1.5, #3, #5, #7, #10.5
_____________________________________________________________
Wild Thing Bb Cornet http://flipoakes.com/trumpets-cornets-flugelhorns/wild-thing-bb-cornet/
After years of research and design, Flip Oakes has created what many players are calling the ultimate Cornet. The Wild Thing is the most open and free blowing cornet ever made.
Response is incredibly fast and allows great flexibility and superb intonation. This truly unique new concept in design produces a sound that is very open and dark with a huge core, yet retains its shape.
This masterpiece will meet the demands of every solo cornet player.
The most significant features of this horn is its open wrapped, conical, one piece, hand hammered bell.
Prices include Deluxe Black Leather Bound Hard-Shell Case and Flip Oakes WT Mouthpiece. The size of your choice.
The Wild Thing Cornet presents the Romance of the cornet reflected in the cornets of the turn of the 20th century.
This cornet has the same gentle flowing curves that will remind you of the Grand Old Cornets of the past with one major exception. Using todays technology and Flip Oakes unique design, he has added a playing quality has never before been achieved in any cornet.
The Wild Thing Cornet will take you back to the days when cornets ruled and trumpets were fanfare instruments! Come and Hear the Difference!
The specially designed leadpipe and bell gives you fast response, flexibility and great intonation. You wont believe how easy this horn is to play!
You can go from ppp to fff effortlessly with absolute control.
The Wild Thing Cornet is also by far the most conical cornet made today which enhances the truest, traditional cornet sound.
It comes with 2 tuning slides with the same design and bore sizes as the trumpet. The only difference is in the length.
An extended length slide is included for playing in the extreme heat such as outdoors at concerts and festivals where you will need more tuning range without having to pull your slide out so far. This extra slide is ideal for this added advantage.
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Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets”
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501
Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994 |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Just ordered one of Flip's American long cornets. I'll post a review and maybe a demo if I can figure out how to get it uploaded.
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Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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1957Tim
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Joined: 30 Oct 2004
Posts: 192
Location: Hannibal Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: Jim's new long cornet |
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Hi Jim Hatfield,
I can relate to your cornet hunger. I started out playing the cornet but eventually moved on to the trumpet. Forty years down the road I began dreaming about playing the cornet again. I read some pretty incredible testimonies here on TH about Flips short model cornet, so after several years of this dreaming/reading cycle, I was finally able to try one. To make a long story short, Ive been playing the short model cornet for a year now, and my only regret is that I didnt own it years ago.
When I asked Arturo Sandoval to describe the playing characteristics of his Wild Thing copper belled short cornet, he told me this was the finest cornet he had ever held in his hands, bar none, period. I believed him, tried one, bought one, and have vowed to play it as long as I have breath.  It is really that good. I am looking forward to reading your review in the near future Jim.
-1957Tim |
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