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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: Bach Piccolo mouthpieces |
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I am noticing that there is a wide variety of people using something between a 7DW and 7EW for piccolo. What would the benefit be of having the deeper cup? Would it not make it more tiring? Also, would one need to adjust the backbore on a 7DW from a 76 to a 117? |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Bach Piccolo mouthpieces |
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Betelgeuse215 wrote: | I am noticing that there is a wide variety of people using something between a 7DW and 7EW for piccolo. What would the benefit be of having the deeper cup? Would it not make it more tiring? Also, would one need to adjust the backbore on a 7DW from a 76 to a 117? |
Before it was stolen, I used a 7D with a 76 backbore (stock on D cups). Played great. The 76 bb is a high trumpet backbore, so it wasn't tiring at all. Gave a nice mellow sound, velvety - reminded me of a Scherzer. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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TKSop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2014 Posts: 1719 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Forget the letters, the 7D is barely deeper than the 7E (same with the wide versions) - the main difference is in the backbores.
They're both good - more players seem to like the 117 on picc but some like the 76 too. |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Ya, it's not much deeper. The cup shapes 7E and 7D were quite a bit different, so I think that gives a valuable contribution to an increase in cup volume. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Might there be multiple applications for either one? I'm kind of new to the piccolo world and am wondering what would be a good starting point for all around piccolo work |
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Tpt_Guy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1101 Location: Sacramento, Ca
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Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Sure! A lot of mouthpieces can be used for many things. Many people say a 117 backbore is for piccolo, but I use one on one of my B-flat mouthpieces and it works great.
A Bach 7E is usually recommended as a starting point because it is a very workable piccolo mouthpiece. Give one a try and see if it works. _________________ -Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Tpt_Guy wrote: | Sure! A lot of mouthpieces can be used for many things. Many people say a 117 backbore is for piccolo, but I use one on one of my B-flat mouthpieces and it works great.
A Bach 7E is usually recommended as a starting point because it is a very workable piccolo mouthpiece. Give one a try and see if it works. |
Thanks! I'll give a 7EW a shot since I am used to 1.25 size so it might feel a little better on the chops |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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An update on the mouthpiece. The 7EW feels great and sounds a lot better(to my ears) than the 11AX I was previously playing. I also happened discover that a 3C(stock) works really well when you want to make it sound like a big trumpet. I wonder if it would work with a 117 backbore to get a better sound out of it or if it's better with a 10. |
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Daniel Barenboim Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 247
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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I like the 7ew, but be careful and keep your pin gauges handy. Too often the yahoos at the Bach factory get a little overzealous with that 117 backbore tool and enlarge the throat several sizes too big in the process.
DB |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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Daniel Barenboim wrote: | I like the 7ew, but be careful and keep your pin gauges handy. Too often the yahoos at the Bach factory get a little overzealous with that 117 backbore tool and enlarge the throat several sizes too big in the process.
DB |
Is that the only way to tell if you happen to not own pin gauges? |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, anybody tried getting a 3D or 7D but getting a 117 backbore put on it? |
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tubbs831 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2005 Posts: 980 Location: Massachusetts/New Hampshire
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Out of curiosity, why do a lot of people seem to prefer the W (cushion) rims on their piccolo mouthpiece but not on their regular one. |
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Betelgeuse215 Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2015 Posts: 186
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Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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tubbs831 wrote: | Out of curiosity, why do a lot of people seem to prefer the W (cushion) rims on their piccolo mouthpiece but not on their regular one. |
Makes transitioning between the two easier/faster if there is a large rim difference between the main mouthpiece and the picc one. This is why is use the W. |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Tpt_Guy wrote: | Sure! A lot of mouthpieces can be used for many things. Many people say a 117 backbore is for piccolo, but I use one on one of my B-flat mouthpieces and it works great.
A Bach 7E is usually recommended as a starting point because it is a very workable piccolo mouthpiece. Give one a try and see if it works. | The Vacchiano biography mentions that he preferred the 117 backbore for all around orchestral playing. In his day I would assume that meant primarily for Bb and D trumpet. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2532 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Betelgeuse215 wrote: | An update on the mouthpiece. The 7EW feels great and sounds a lot better(to my ears) than the 11AX I was previously playing. I also happened discover that a 3C(stock) works really well when you want to make it sound like a big trumpet. I wonder if it would work with a 117 backbore to get a better sound out of it or if it's better with a 10. |
My 3C with a 117 backbore is best for me on the A side of my Kanstul piccolo. For the Bb side, I use a Bach 7D. The D cup is not a lot deeper than the E cup, but the cup shape is different, and it adds volume to the cup. Mssr. André, who I consider to be the father of all solo piccolo style and performance, used a 7DW, enjoying the wider rim for his playing. He was a confirmed 1 1/2C user on larger horns, so it might be a great idea to try it as well.
Al _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Shark01 Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2017 Posts: 278
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: |
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tubbs831 wrote: | Out of curiosity, why do a lot of people seem to prefer the W (cushion) rims on their piccolo mouthpiece but not on their regular one. |
I do it to balance the added pressure used to play the mostly high notes.....(runs for cover) |
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LandonTrumpet New Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2016 Posts: 5 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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From what I've seen and tested, the bach 7EW and the 7DW are very similar. My professor swears by a 7DW with a 117 backbore, but most students at my college play on a bach 7EW _________________ Landon Reese
Bach Strad 1974 Bb
Bach Strad 2010 Bb
Kanstul 920 Bb/A |
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65strad Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 979 Location: Toms River, New Jersey
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:07 am Post subject: |
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Daniel Barenboim wrote: | I like the 7ew, but be careful and keep your pin gauges handy. Too often the yahoos at the Bach factory get a little overzealous with that 117 backbore tool and enlarge the throat several sizes too big in the process.
DB |
Even with CNC machining, or earlier? _________________ Tom
'08 Bach factory custom "one off" 43*G SN#2008
'65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836
'67 Bach 180 37 SN#39773
'70 Bach 181 37 SN#58831
'72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503
'05 Bach VBS 196 Picc SN#560142
'07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602 |
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