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FlerbMcgurb
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: Range Problems? |
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| I've been doing lip slurs and range building exercises about 10 to 20 minutes a day and while my endurance has increased large amounts I still can barely hit high c let alone anything over. I have rather large lips, I play on a bach 3c right now, I'm very close to 50/50 placement and I play upstream, I tongue arch and roll in and roll out as normal and I just cant seem to ever increase my range, any help? |
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Aaron Molina
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| It's tough to guess over the internet but if I had to put my 2 cents in it's likely due to restricted airflow. To play in the upper register you need to have a very fast stream of air coming through small aperture. I would have an experienced teacher take a look at your breathing and sound as you ascend into the upper register. Might be tensing up in the body, applying too much pressure on the mouthpiece, or tensing up in the throat area. |
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Aaron Molina wrote: | | It's tough to guess over the internet...... |
Exactly.
Nothing wrong with asking here, but this is something best addressed by a private lesson teacher, or at least an in-person consultation with someone QUALIFIED.
Brad
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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I'll take a shot at this. As you ascend the scale what happens to the contact point between your lower lip and upper lip? Does it stay in the same place? If it does you're going to have problems. Try moving the contact point back and further up the inside of your upper lip by drawing your lower lip further back and moving it up the inner surface of your upper lip. Tell me what happens.
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | I'll take a shot at this. As you ascend the scale what happens to the contact point between your lower lip and upper lip? Does it stay in the same place? If it does you're going to have problems. Try moving the contact point back and further up the inside of your upper lip by drawing your lower lip further back and moving it up the inner surface of your upper lip. Tell me what happens. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems like it would result in a downward airstream and he already stated he's an upstream player.
To OP:
Honestly, if I were you, I would consult the Reinhardt forum and ask there, and maybe see about getting some lessons from a teacher who is familiar with upstream chops.
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"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
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FlerbMcgurb
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks to everyone for advice! I live in a very rural area so its harder for me to get out for private lessons and such otherwise I definitely would |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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Some teachers will teach via Skype. If you can't go far but can skype, this may be a viable option.
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"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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FlerbMcgurb
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Joined: 26 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Some teachers will teach via Skype. If you can't go far but can skype, this may be a viable option. |
I'll consider this but because of how far out I live quality of internet isn't quite the greatest either |
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RussellDDixon
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Would be better to video and YouTube us a sample of your playing so we can view what you are doing.
The home page of my website features numerous very effective SKYPE teachers.
There is also a High Range page with High Range tips from about a dozen well known professionals.
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Robert P
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Whatever you're doing isn't netting you the results you want. Consider that "rolling" in/out might not be a valid concept.
What's the highest note you can play with a big sound?
As Russell suggested video would be helpful.
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zaferis
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| FlerbMcgurb wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Some teachers will teach via Skype. If you can't go far but can skype, this may be a viable option. |
I'll consider this but because of how far out I live quality of internet isn't quite the greatest either |
I'll be direct.. don't make excuses, make time and make things happen.
If you truly want reasonable help, find it anyway you can, but one on one is best. Impossible in a forum like this to make specific suggestions, get some lessons.. quite frankly, what we think/feel we are doing while playing the trumpet is often not actually what we are doing. An experienced teacher can see and hear things we don't in ourselves.
Improvement takes time and range can be one of the slowest things to expand, plus there are many other aspects of playing that should be focussed on as well. good sound (first and always), good approach, good technique, etc., etc......
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Brad361
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | FlerbMcgurb wrote: | | Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Some teachers will teach via Skype. If you can't go far but can skype, this may be a viable option. |
I'll consider this but because of how far out I live quality of internet isn't quite the greatest either |
I'll be direct.. don't make excuses, make time and make things happen.
If you truly want reasonable help, find it anyway you can, but one on one is best. Impossible in a forum like this to make specific suggestions, get some lessons.. quite frankly, what we think/feel we are doing while playing the trumpet is often not actually what we are doing. An experienced teacher can see and hear things we don't in ourselves.
Improvement takes time and range can be one of the slowest things to expand, plus there are many other aspects of playing that should be focussed on as well. good sound (first and always), good approach, good technique, etc., etc...... |
Agreed. I'm not in any way trying to discourage the OP, but if he REALLY wants the best solution to address the problem he needs to find a way to make either in person or skype lessons happen.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Lionel
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Joined: 25 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| FlerbMcgurb wrote: | | I've been doing lip slurs and range building exercises about 10 to 20 minutes a day and while my endurance has increased large amounts I still can barely hit high c let alone anything over. I have rather large lips, I play on a bach 3c right now, I'm very close to 50/50 placement and I play upstream, I tongue arch and roll in and roll out as normal and I just cant seem to ever increase my range, any help? |
Think that you could be fixed in five minutes. Clearly there isnt enough elasticity within your upper lip to blow above high c. This the most common range problem.
Exercises can not fix this problem. As they will just reinforce the problem.
In order to increase the elasticity within your upper lip? Allow about an 1/8th of an inch more upper lip to rest or descend below your upper teeth. This does not mean putting more upper lip into the mouthpiece. Just means understanding that,
"You cant play on your teeth".
98% of all trumpet players try to "play on their teeth". It cant be done! When your teeth are in the way? It is impossible to blow a high E. Period.
Most all the screamers Ive seen have upper lips which naturally rest below their upper teeth. Being completely unaware of other's limitations? Ive always found their range advice suspect.
But when I do find a trumpet player who is trying to play on his teeth? If he listens to me? I can fix his upper register in 5 minutes. Unfortunately people are ego driven. Dont like to listen. Think that they know everything. May even try and give me advice on high range and that really makes me burn. I tell them.
"Look bud Ive got a working octave and a half more range than you. That is you who will burn out your chops in half an hour while I'm working a four hour gig play high notes running consistently a perfect fifth to an octave above your part. So? You've got nothing to give me. Nothing at all. There is not one piece of knowledge that you have that could better my trumpet playing. Best that you take the cotton out of your ears, stick it in your mouth. Stay quiet and stop acting like a fool. Sit down and shut up. As you just might learn something from me"
Its harsh but fair. Excessive cockiness in a musicisn always a detriment to their learning. Plys theyre just a pain to be around.
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HERMOKIWI
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Joined: 24 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| Lionel wrote: | | "Look bud Ive got a working octave and a half more range than you. That is you who will burn out your chops in half an hour while I'm working a four hour gig play high notes running consistently a perfect fifth to an octave above your part. So? You've got nothing to give me. Nothing at all. There is not one piece of knowledge that you have that could better my trumpet playing. Best that you take the cotton out of your ears, stick it in your mouth. Stay quiet and stop acting like a fool. Sit down and shut up. As you just might learn something from me" |
Wow.
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | | Lionel wrote: | | "Look bud Ive got a working octave and a half more range than you. That is you who will burn out your chops in half an hour while I'm working a four hour gig play high notes running consistently a perfect fifth to an octave above your part. So? You've got nothing to give me. Nothing at all. There is not one piece of knowledge that you have that could better my trumpet playing. Best that you take the cotton out of your ears, stick it in your mouth. Stay quiet and stop acting like a fool. Sit down and shut up. As you just might learn something from me" |
Wow. |
WOW.
Are you nuts?? Is that something you would actually say to someone? If that is something you would say unprovoked (ie, not in response to an equally inappropriate response), I'd be surprised if anyone would want to work with you, at least not more than once. And it really doesn't matter how well you might play, because there's always someone around the corner who is better.
I knew a guy who was a kick butt player, but because of his personality seldom was asked back for a second gig.
And if you said "Excessive cockiness in a musicisn always a detriment to their learning. Plys theyre just a pain to be around.", you might want to consider listening to that.
Maybe I've missed or misunderstood something here???
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Tpt_Guy
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Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| Brad361 wrote: |
WOW.
Are you nuts?? Is that something you would actually say to someone? If that is something you would say unprovoked (ie, not in response to an equally inappropriate response), I'd be surprised if anyone would want to work with you, at least not more than once. And it really doesn't matter how well you might play, because there's always someone around the corner who is better.
I knew a guy who was a kick butt player, but because of his personality seldom was asked back for a second gig.
And if you said "Excessive cockiness in a musicisn always a detriment to their learning. Plys theyre just a pain to be around.", you might want to consider listening to that.
Maybe I've missed or misunderstood something here???
Brad |
In his previous paragraph he outlines a scenario where he would actually say that to a player.
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"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
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BeboppinFool
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| Tpt_Guy wrote: | | Brad361 wrote: |
WOW.
Are you nuts?? Is that something you would actually say to someone? If that is something you would say unprovoked (ie, not in response to an equally inappropriate response), I'd be surprised if anyone would want to work with you, at least not more than once. And it really doesn't matter how well you might play, because there's always someone around the corner who is better.
I knew a guy who was a kick butt player, but because of his personality seldom was asked back for a second gig.
And if you said "Excessive cockiness in a musicisn always a detriment to their learning. Plys theyre just a pain to be around.", you might want to consider listening to that.
Maybe I've missed or misunderstood something here???
Brad |
In his previous paragraph he outlines a scenario where he would actually say that to a player. |
Ridiculous.
That's the sort of behavior that can usually insure that no one will work with someone like that regardless of how accomplished he might (that's MIGHT), be.
Speaking for myself I'll pretty much disregard his input here from now on.
Brad
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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Tpt_Guy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Not disagreeing, particularly. I think it really depends on the situation.
I've been groups where there have been hotheaded players who refuse to stop giving unwanted snide critiques and potshots disguised as "advice" and have actually had to turn and firmly say, "shut up!", for them to get the point.
Not pleasant but on rare occasions it needs to be done.
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"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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tim_wolf
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Joined: 28 Feb 2006
Posts: 379
Location: Lancaster, PA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Range Problems? |
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| Brad361 wrote: | | HERMOKIWI wrote: | | Lionel wrote: | | "Look bud Ive got a working octave and a half more range than you. That is you who will burn out your chops in half an hour while I'm working a four hour gig play high notes running consistently a perfect fifth to an octave above your part. So? You've got nothing to give me. Nothing at all. There is not one piece of knowledge that you have that could better my trumpet playing. Best that you take the cotton out of your ears, stick it in your mouth. Stay quiet and stop acting like a fool. Sit down and shut up. As you just might learn something from me" |
Wow. |
WOW.
Are you nuts?? Is that something you would actually say to someone? If that is something you would say unprovoked (ie, not in response to an equally inappropriate response), I'd be surprised if anyone would want to work with you, at least not more than once. And it really doesn't matter how well you might play, because there's always someone around the corner who is better.
I knew a guy who was a kick butt player, but because of his personality seldom was asked back for a second gig.
And if you said "Excessive cockiness in a musicisn always a detriment to their learning. Plys theyre just a pain to be around.", you might want to consider listening to that.
Maybe I've missed or misunderstood something here???
Brad |
I think the end of the previous paragraph explains it a bit better.
"May even try and give me advice on high range and that really makes me burn. I tell them."
It sounds like he says this to someone who doesn't have range, and then tries to give him range advice. |
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