Large Bore or Medium Bore?

[trumpetchops]

I've been playing a Monette MF Prana for a long time. I don't know the bore size on the trumpet. The mouthpiece has a pretty big throat. I get a big sound with the Monette. The sound holds together, not the sizzle sound.

The other night at a band rehearsal the guy playing lead had a Mt Vernon Medium Bore with him. He was selling it and the sale didn't go through. I played the trumpet and liked it a lot so, I bought it.

I'm not the lead player in the band but, I played a few tunes on lead. It seemed like I had to push a little up high. When I did the trumpet really sizzled.

I'm wondering if I change to the smaller bore, will I last longer? Tomorrow I have a rehearsal playing lead. I'm going to play the medium bore and see what happens. I'll still use the Monette mouthpiece with the Bach trumpet.

I'll post again after the rehearsal.
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

[markp]

I always thought for some reason that large bore would mean a darker, broader sound. But I'm playing a large-bore Getzen Severinsen horn from the 70s now, and I'm finding that it is actually brighter for me.

I'm also curious to see what other players think would be the difference in a large-bore and medium-bore horn.

It seems that I do need a bit more air to play the large-bore. Do other players experience this?

[Rod Haney]

[Brad361]

“The Irrelavance Of Bore Size” was the title of a piece that Schilke wrote.
IMO, there is much more to how a horn sounds and plays than bore size; a LOT more.

I’ve gone from medium at one time (450) to quite large now (470), and the only conclusion I have come to is the title of Schilke’s article.

Brad

[HERMOKIWI]

I think that if you take a theoretical trumpet in two configurations, one in medium bore and one in large bore, with everything else being identical, the medium bore should theoretically be easier to play to its maximum volume compared to the ease of playing the large bore to its maximum volume. However, at identical volumes I think the difference would be negligible. I also think that the large bore could be played to higher volume levels than the medium bore, although I think that would be a negligible difference as well.

It becomes much more difficult to compare the ease of playing two different make/model horns when one is a large bore and the other is a medium bore. The bore size is reflected in the diameter at the second valve slide. That's just one tiny measurement. A "medium bore" horn could be larger everywhere else compared to a different make/model "large bore."

Some "large bore" horns are designated as such even when the measurement at the second valve slide is the same on the "large bore" and "medium large bore" models. The Getzen Eterna Severinsen model is an example. The measurement at the second valve slide of the Getzen Eterna Severinsen "large bore" is exactly the same as that measurement is for the "medium large bore." The difference between the Getzen Eterna Severinsen "large bore" and "medium large bore" is the lead pipe, tuning slide and tuning slide receivers. The rest of the horns of the two bore sizes are identical to each other.
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HERMOKIWI

[Schilkes22]

Am I wrong in My thinking that it's not just bore size,but all the other variables coming together that make up a horns sound?
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I wish I was as good as I thought I was !!!
Schilke S22
Yamaha 631 Flugel
Warburton Mouthpieces
Berklee '95

[Rod Haney]

That's what I felt Taylor and Eclipse were both saying. The variances in blow on different bells was negligible but the sound was varied. The effect on blow and to some extent sound on different leadpipes was very noticeable I was frankly amazed by how much difference in blow and feel it made. Ive found that the closer to the lips a change is made the greater the difference in blow/feel. I'm not a mouthpiece chaser but the different leadpipes changed things more than I would have expected. I don't know if I will use many of the 6 leadpipes that come with the Eclipse but I know that 2 of them make things a lot easier and match my blow almost perfectly. I really thought it was a gimmick when I tried them but I found a way to tailor blow and feel I didn't know existed before (hadn't tried many modular horns before). I can only say that if I ever buy another stock horn I'll pay much more attention to the leadpipe I select.
Rod

[trumpetchops]

This morning I had a rehearsal playing lead. I only brought the Bach so I wouldn't be tempted to go back and forth. The results were much different than I expected.

For the first couple tunes, I was having trouble. The tuning is different on the Bach and the overall feel is way different and the sound is way different.

The Monette has a darker sound that doesn't spread when pushed. The Bach has a kind if sizzle when pushed and all around brighter sound. The feel of the medium bore is so much different than the Monette. When I play the Monette, it just kind of goes. Hard to explain. When I play the Bach, it feels like there is something to push against. Both are good. (I think) It took about an hour of playing to feel comfortable. After rehearsal, I asked the guy playing second what he thought and he said I sounded much better the second half of rehearsal. I asked the lead alto and he said he liked the Bach sound. I asked, "better than my other trumpet?" and he said, "yes, I think so"

I think I have to play the Bach a lot more to know if I can last longer than playing the Monette. I don't know if I'll invest the time. I have a church gig tomorrow. I'll play the Bach there and post again.
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

[markp]

[oxleyk]

I'm just an amateur hack. I play in a community band and for my own enjoyment. I'm loving my XO 1600i. It took me several weeks to adjust to it but once I started backing off on the air everything became much easier. Lots of very soft playing helped. This also crosses over to my larger bore trumpets. Backing off works.

Kent

[Brad361]

[Seymor B Fudd]

[trumpetchops]

For those still interested:

I played the Bach at the rehearsal before church. I had a mixture of first and second trumpet parts. I couldn't make the Bach work. It felt really tight and I was missing notes. The sound was good though.

Between rehearsal and the performance I went to my car and got the Monette. Everything went back to normal.

I played pretty hard last night in the big band. Maybe the Bach didn't work this morning because I was still tired from last night?

I haven't given up on the idea of the medium bore. I'll post again after I've played it in different bands. It might be a while until the next post.
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

[HERMOKIWI]

[dershem]

The last time I was at NAMM, I went to the Schilke booth, whee they had all of their trumpets lined up b y size, and played the same set of figures on all of them. Each played differently.
So bore does matter.

[Tony Scodwell]

If I remember correctly (I spent a lot of time at Getzen in the sixties) the first large bore model of the Eterna was sized at .468. They got quite a bit of feedback from pros which seemed to say it was too free blowing. They changed to .464 and I believe they stayed with that throughout the production run. I was good friends with almost everybody in the plant and was told the difference in the two models was simply wall thickness of the tubing used with thinner tubing being used on the LB. You would have to check with the Getzen people now running the factory to see if that is still the case. Adam Getzen is an extremely knowledgable guy and a straight shooter so I'd try to quiz him.

Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com

[Dale Proctor]

My experience with horns of a wide range of bore sizes is, the smaller the bore, the more you need to back off and let the horn do more of the work for you. Playing it like a large bore will result in a stuffy, backed-up feel.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[trumpetchops]

I have been working with this Trumpet a lot. The playing characteristics remind me of a Piccolo trumpet. In the lower register it plays like any other Trumpet. In the upper register it's easy to hit the note but, you have to really back off. I don't think that it will have a big sound in the upper register, no matter how much I work with it. I still want to try it while playing in a band and see if I can blend.
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Joe Spitzer
Monroe Ct.

[p76]

Joe, a question (apologies if I missed the answer above) - are you playing the Bach with your Monette mpc? or a different mpc? The Monette mpcs are very different to a "standard" type mpc, esp. in the throat and bore.

I have found that using a Monette mpc in a med bore horn has it's problems, especially with resistance.

Also, because you've been playing Monette equipment, you will have dialled yourself into a type of blow that is different to what is required to get the best out of a med bore horn.

These are ideas to think about. They may not apply in your situation, but I found when I changed out my Monette mpc for something more "normal", I could handle big band stuff better.

It's always fun to experiment, and you can always go back to Monette if you feel that's where you should be. Enjoy!

Cheers,
Roger
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[trumpetchops]