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Bach 1c E over DBL C warm up #4


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Shaft
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a question.

If you knew Bud Brisobois was going to die the next day? YOU DESPISED everything he did and did not like his sound?

Would you push him over the edge with your comments?

I challenge all of you who have so much to critique to the lifelong eternal trumpet duel.

The day you stop uploading either by choice or by death is the day you forfeit.

It begins now.

Show us your best every day.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan in Sydney wrote:
Maybe, just maybe if you concentrated on making a sound with some CORE in the middle and low registers that might be more worthwhile use of your effort and time.
As far as the extreme high register on the 1C?
Mate, I've got a tea kettle that can do that all day, with the same amount of musical intent.

Sorry to be so negative, but if you're going to post a video on this site, make it mean something.


Hi Dan,
Given that it was obviously recorded on a phone, I'm not sure what you are expecting to hear in terms of 'core in the middle and low registers'. His lower register sounded quite full. The low C was maybe a little wooly, but the E through high C at the end of the recording sounded full and resonate.

I'd not be too judgemental about it because he's holding the horn with one hand and it's a phone.

---

Quote:
But the tone quality being so thin doesn't really make it come across particularly impressive - sure, it's cool to be able to play them at all, but if the tone isn't suitable for performing those notes then it's kinda academic.


Honestly, I think you're overstating the point a bit. If you hunt around, there are some videos on youtube of Jon Faddis, James Morrison and Arturo playing (each is a separate video) where they are being recorded without a mic right in front of the bell (and no amplification), but instead by someone with a phone behind the bell. In each case, their upper register, particularly the extreme upper register, is surprisingly pretty 'weak' sounding. Certainly not what you're used to hearing on recordings.

Here is a perfect example with both Arturo and Morrison...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsRc6a1P04U

Point being that the guys who play truly paint-stripping Double Cs etc are even rarer than we probably realise.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Shaft
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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delano
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big question is: do you like it and if yes, why?

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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
Here is a question.

If you knew Bud Brisobois was going to die the next day? YOU DESPISED everything he did and did not like his sound?

Would you push him over the edge with your comments?

I challenge all of you who have so much to critique to the lifelong eternal trumpet duel.

The day you stop uploading either by choice or by death is the day you forfeit.

It begins now.

Show us your best every day.


+1 fast escalation
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About impossible to get much core above about a high E on a 1C. I'd expect any orchestral player to know that. Demanding tons of core and to play every note perfectly is no way to develop more high register! An orchestral player can afford not to know that.

While I'm tempted to question the usefulness of the OP using a 1C in this fashion, if anyone is going to it should be done in a short burst with plenty of rest, exactly what the OP is doing! It is an exercise; all exercises are academic. This particular exercise will require extra focus and control right at the aperture, which is in fact an excellent way to develop upper register.

Since the OP doesn't actually play a 1C, (and shouldn't, IMHO)then the squirrelly-ness on the way down is symptomatic of that not being the way he normally plays. Again, that makes what he's doing an excellent developmental / academic exercise! It will serve to connect whatever he's doing here to the rest of his playing, making both more useful and tending towards progress generally.

I'd like to hear him play the Cleaning Fanfare on his Curry 70S.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:

Link


10:30 am 8-22-17


Hey Shaft,

I'm not sure if you're after feedback or just want to share?

I'm hearing a few things in your recording that might be worth mentioning but if you're just posting to share you progress feel free to ignore my message.

The main problems I'm hearing are in you're attack, which takes a while to 'centre'. This is probably partly a mouthpiece mismatch. However a big part of it I know, from my own experimentation is setting the lips in an positioned that is too curled or rolled in.
This was confirmed for me by the way the sound got less resonant as you moved above the staff.
The other thing I noticed was in transitioning between notes you're not moving from centre to centre. Going up, you tend to come in high on the slot and descending you tend to end up on the bottom.
My guess is that this is happening because you're moving around the horn using your lip rather than air and tongue, or you're using tongue but still doing too much with your lips.

I anchor tongue and for me, moving around, the tongue and air are doing most of the work, lips are really pretty relaxed, and just sought of 'come along for the ride.
You mentioned I think that you've just started dorsal tonguing.so it could be that you're still doing more work with the face than you need to?
But I'd definitely start thinking less about curling the lips in as you ascend, and more about simply keeping them from blowing out.

Not sure if any of that makes sense or is helpful, but just some things to maybe play around with?
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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trompette229
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your playing has some really admirable qualities as heard on the Fanfare you posted. I think if you just posted the Fanfare you wouldn't have seen what you're thinking of as dark responses. The hyping of the 1C mouthpiece and the squeaky stuff may have given folks an odd first impression. Keep up the good work.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Shaft
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Razeontherock - I apologize if I metioned already but the reason I posted initially is just to back up and revitalize a never ending topic that high nites can be played on big mouthpieces also.

Also that high notes can be played with essentially zero warm up with no adverse side effects when an appropriate approach is observed.

Basically myth busting for the younger generation.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Shaft
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Shaft
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trompette229 wrote:
I think your playing has some really admirable qualities as heard on the Fanfare you posted. I think if you just posted the Fanfare you wouldn't have seen what you're thinking of as dark responses. The hyping of the 1C mouthpiece and the squeaky stuff may have given folks an odd first impression. Keep up the good work.


Very kind of you.

Warm regards
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Shaft,

Glad my comment was helpful.

For me, the whole open closed aperture thing can be a bit confusing because it's not quite so straight forward often. You know, generally speaking, a soft low c is probably similar aperture to a loud high C and so forth. But I think that only applies to setting the mouthpiece. Once you start playing it's a lot more fluid.

However I have heard it explained the opposite way around by a few people which was basically that for many people as they ascend they end up at a point where they are actually too choked off, and so they actually need to start with everything more 'open' so that they have more wiggle room before things start to shut down.
I actually don't know which is more helpful way to think about it.

I think that is somewhat the mentality behind Bobby Shew etc talking about open apetures.

Personally, I'm trying to get there through less analysis. Finding that right balance through practice rather than tweaking. You know, just adding a small crescendo on notes where they start to get a bit weaker, and over time they should get a bit more oompf.

For me, deliberately setting them further apart doesn't seem to help as I just end up using more pressure. It's all a balancing act I guess!
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Cat used to do this, prescribed it, and used a 1c mouthpiece as his warm up mouthpiece at times. I do not know if he did this exercise exclusively on it but I get way more whisper than when I use a shallower more compression oriented mouthpiece. The benefits I saw immediately was that I was able to practice quiet on a high note lip setting. Clint McLaughlin taught me that low equals same lip aperture size as loud and soft equaled the same aperture size as high. So we can practice our high notes to some extent by playing soft.

Are there things that other trumpeters gain out of this exercise of those of you who have emoloyed this in your regimin over the years?


Hey Shaft, does Pops ever talk about Dave Hickman's idea of fixed jaw and floating jaw players? I have much better results doing moving long tones rather than static long tones such as Cat's approach. I believe that this is because I am a floating jaw player. Vizzutti's book one is really great for my playing. I do his long tone exercises 1-8 at quarter = 84 as he has marked. These are basically half note arpeggios in different chords. I also do the new Chicowicz book this way with the flow studies..or I just make up my own.

I got the idea awhile ago watching some Vizzutti clips - He demonstrates great endurance combined with the double C range, and in a classical setting
Link
and is very relaxed in his approach.

Since I do a lot of small group jazz playing, that type of endurance with range with important to me as well. I might have a session of small group jazz in the afternoon for 3-4 hours and, then, a 4 hour small group jazz gig at night. I want to have my same range and endurance at the end of the night. Applying concepts like Lynn Nicholson and Pops talk about have been key for me in doing this. Practicing moving long tones with these concepts in mind have been highly beneficial lately in establishing even more of a 'sweet spot'/relaxed 'grip' on the mouthpiece combined with overall efficiency all over the horn. All the best, Lex.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're probably fixed jaw..more static long tones, like Cat's, would be of benefit to you the most I think. Nice fanfare - You're ready for the racetrack! Best, Lex
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
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