Anybody free buzz?

jgadvert · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:07 am Post subject:

Mr. wonder guy is at it again!
I was taught as part of the closed lip technique
(to buzz 15-20 minutes a day, lips only). I was told to do it to build the right compression muscles fast. Faster than playing. At first it was boring and almost nausiating..and it still is(ha ha)...but I do it every day.

The greatest benefit I've gotten with it as a warm up prior to a performance to define that center compression spot...gets lips ready to buzz.

BTW, tried "all the tricks"(like pivoting more of the pressure to the bottom lip, continually pushing up with the bottom lip), but my top lip still feels a bit pinned(I am a recovering heavy mpc pressure user). And I know thats the part of the lips that you are supposed to get the most buzzing from.

I wonder what your viewpoints are on the subject and lets avoid the "What's closed/Whats opened" debate.

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:22 am Post subject:

"I wonder what your viewpoints are on the subject and lets avoid the "What's closed/Whats opened" debate."

I wonder what debate that is?

I'm not sure if there is any merit to free buzzing, by itself. Free buzzing, IMO, to have any pedagogical value, must be incorporated into exercises that translate it to actual horn playing. For example, free buzz an exercise from (or a line from an exercise) the Schlossberg Daily Drills book (first line of #5 for example). Then play it on the mouthpiece. Finally play it on the horn, no valves. This is an exercise that will teach your chops about the relationship of buzzing to playing.

Just free buzzing by itself is like playing pedals and then following them with nothing in the normal range. No exchange has been established between the two activities. You may become a great free buzzer, but isn't playing the trumpet your real goal?

EVERYTHING that you practice should be made to relate somehow to the trumpet, for it to be most effective.

CR

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Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-03-04 12:23 ]

trickg · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:37 am Post subject:

This is my take on buzzing or MP buzzing:

For me, playing trumpet and getting a good sound is about maximizing the efficiency of the buzz in the mouthpiece to make the horn resonate a certain way. For every mouthpiece or horn, there is going to have to be a slight adjustment made by the lips in order for this to happen. If you are only buzzing the MP or leadpipe, or just buzzing the lips, your lips will change just slightly to adapt to the resonance of the situation to attain maximum efficiency. Then, when you put the mouthpiece into the horn and buzz, now your chops have adjusted to whatever it was you were doing before and won't be focused for the horn.

This is just a personal observation and is only my humble opion. I say this because, although I've got a good sound, I lack any consistent range past high C, but for what it's worth, it's the same reason that I don't like to practice with a whisper or bubble mute. The horn just feels totally different and out of focus.

As for whether or not it is a good muscle builing exercise for the chops, it probably is. I may just have to give it a whirl and see what happens. In the past, the buzzing that I did was always on my leadpipe or just the mouthpiece but I haven't ever really just buzzed my chops.
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Jerry Freedman · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:56 am Post subject:

I am a comeback player and I have had a lot of success combining Caruso exercises with free buzzing(Nick Drozdoff style peel-aways). I studied with Carmine a long time ago and he did advocate ( at least for me) free buzzing. Drozdoff talks alot about relating free buzzing with what goes on when actually playing (http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/52/mr_ds.html )

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:03 am Post subject:

I started free buzzing on the advice of Pops and a few others. I think it helped initially to learn what a "closed" setting was, and how to get a buzz that way.

But. I've never really transferred it completely to my playing, though it has helped. My "buzzing" embouchure is not the same as when I place the mpc. This seems to be a common problem. My teacher advocates buzzing with the mpc to warm up, but (like Jacobs, natch) feels free buzzing doesn't really help all that much because what you do to buzz free and with mpc are different. I tend to agree. I believe the SC guys are of the same opinion. I do find that a very brief freebuzz sometimes helps to kickstart my warmup.

One thing I have noticed -- once I start buzzing, I can't stop! I'll start buzzing along with a tune on the radio, then start improvising over it and all that jazz

only to get home after thirty minutes of buzzing with chops too tired to practice. 'Tis insidious, this buzzing thing, and clearly habit-forming for some people (guilty). Not to mention the annoyance I generate in non-playing household members (kids, wife, dog, rats, etc.) when I spontaneously buzz along with something on the radio or in my head... I don't typically do it, or very little, around fellow players but suspect the effect would be roughly the same on them (as fingernails on a chalkboard...) Instead, I try to change to whistling whenever I find myself buzzing. It's slightly less annoying, but more (?) importantly saves the chops.

I have the same general issue with isometric exercises, which don't always target the "right" muscles. However, these (the pencil thing, "wow" and "pucker" things, etc.) seem to help build overall muscle tone and actually make my chops feel better after a hard blow in addition to helping jump-start my warmup, so I'll keep on with them. They are (usually) silent, an added benefit. OTOH, I've gotten some strange looks from people passing on the highway when doing the exercises. (More than the usual number of strange looks, OK?) I happened to glance at the lady in the car next to me once and received a response that was... err... less than pleasant, and a clear indication she did not understand I was a trumpet player doing isometrics in the truck on the way to work. Maybe I need one of those yellow diamonds saying "trumpet player on board"? Naaahhh, why make myself a target...

So, it (free buzzing, for those who've forgotten where this lengthy post began) seems to help a little, especially in first getting a feel for the closed setting thang, and now and then to just work the chops, but by and large I agree with Sir Charles R. that it does not transfer well to playing the horn (what does?) and seems to have other addictive and detrimental qualities.

Whatever (tired of alphabet soup and long disclaimers) - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

jgadvert · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:09 am Post subject:

Charles, really enjoyed your website and your postings. Particularly the Herb Alpert tribute. Big influence for me. Over and above his playing, that man has attitude!

Found the recent debate(all right, discussion!)whats opened/closed interesting. I'm one of those start closed and let the air blow open and form the aperture mind sets.

Of course, after buzzing I go in to a battery of perscribed exercises(taught to me by top notch people, like you!)...all in effort to get the maximum amount of buzz. I always try to push back from the horn and make sure to do so once I start playing after the free buzz session. Is there a benefit, yeah, I play better.

BTW, if there was one book you would recomend on Caruso's teachings, what would that be?

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:25 am Post subject:

Don,

".......... but by and large I agree with Sir Charles R. that it does not transfer well to playing the horn ........."

Guess I was unclear on that. No. I think free buzzing is good and can help a player get his chops working correctly. What has to be included with free buzzing is immediate follow up exercises that would first utiluze the mouthpiece and then the horn. Free buzzing (and pedal exercises) need to be exposed to the trumpet so that the trumpet embouchure will know what to do with them to help it play better. At the stage I am at, I simply buzz for a second and put the horn on and play when I start out each day. The way my lips buzz is the way they play in the mouthpiece and horn.

Regards,

Charly

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 10:30 am Post subject:

Sorry, Charly, should've use the words "may not transfer to the horn". Especially when you gave a clear example of how to make that happen! Duh -- brain ain't fully functional today. Too much buzzin'

jgadvert -- "The" book is Musical Calisthenics for Brass which is available from most stores, online and brick-and-mortar. It's short and sweet, but like most concise texts every word is important.
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:13 am Post subject:

jgadvert,

I share your enthusiasm for Herb Alpert's playing and success. He is probably one of the most influential trumpet players of the 20th century. He is certainly far and away the most financially successful. He is truly a tribute to what can be accomplished below high C. But check out the double A on Casino Royale. Must have been a studio guy that did it.

The only book that I know of in print that expounds the Caruso philosophy is "Musical Calisthenics For Brass." It can be obtained at:

http://www.tulsaband.com/tptmethod.htm

and at:

http://www.jazzbooks.com/scripts/search.asp?category=35

Lot of good comments in the Caruso Forum, also.

Another interesting commentary on Carmine is this website.

http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/letters-caruso.asp

Regards,

CR

_________________
Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-03-04 14:24 ]

rgeba · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:39 am Post subject:

I had to laugh at Don's report of other drivers' reaction to his in-car chops exercises. I've caught a suspicious glance or two also.

I sometimes do some mouthpiece buzzing while driving. One of my friends told me it would not be difficult for someone at a glance to think I was smoking something in a small pipe. He felt if an officer of the law spotted me, he would probably want to pull me over for a closer look and a short discussion.

-Bob

jgadvert · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 12:07 pm Post subject:

Charles,

As posted already, wonder(there I go again!)
what type of emborchure technique Herb uses.
I appreciate your pointing out he's one of the most financially successful trumpeters(in addition to his many other ventures) given his
somewhat questionable all around skill.
Herb is gorgeous TONE and style(those great Benge horns help too!) Rise is part my regular practice routine to work on those all important areas.

In my local music market, by doing alot of other things right (boy would I love to elaborate on that) I have had superior/comparable success versus those who are clearly more technically advanced than I. God Bless America.

Don,

Its true about getting odd looks from those who see you buzzing. I too annoy and puzzle family and co-workers with it (what the heck are you doing?; my tenor sax partner keeps asking).

Anything to play better!

Pat · Veteran Member Joined: 18 Nov 2001 Posts: 396

Free and mouthpiece buzzing (at the piano) are integral parts of the the Stamp method. I have tried both, but like some others, have found that too much of either stiffens my lip. --I have personally found the lip bends advocated by Stamp (and more fully described by Hardenberger) to be more helpful in finding the balance between lip tension and air, and strengthening the corners.

Max Reverb · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:21 pm Post subject:

Mouthpiece buzzing--what a unique thing. I do it in privacy as it usually offends those within earshot. Cool reverb when done in the shower. My wife was wondering what the hell my problem was--bad gas? I think it's a great crosstraining exercise, but of course like anything, all in moderation. I do the improv thing too when/if the radio is on.

Martin · Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:13 pm Post subject:

I started lip buzzing recently and it helped me a lot. My embouchure was too open, and while lip buzzing and actually playing the horn are different, buzzing improved my initial attacks, sound, range, consistency and overall ease of playing. It also works well as a quick warm up when there´s no time for anything else.
Bobby Shew and Lew Soloff, among others, advocate lip buzzing. And, as "Pops" McLaughlin says: "No mouthpiece - no pressure - no damage".
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All the best

Martin
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"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

Bill Hicks · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:42 am Post subject:

jgadvert · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 8:48 am Post subject:

Martin:

Great response, on the benefits of lip buzzing. Could'nt have put it better myself.

_bugleboy · Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:33 am Post subject:

"I heard it was Ollie Mitchell playing that double A."

That would make sense.

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