Chet Baker Vs Herb Alpert

orenthal resets · Regular Member Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 45

Hi all
Chet v Herb
Who wins the following battles?
A) Chicks
B) High Notes
C) Weed

let me know what you think?

Juice

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Thats a funny question.

Chicks.....I would say its probably a tie, with the edge going to Herb. Junkies have little or no desire for sex. But Chet was a real handsom dude when he was young.

High notes.......Well Herb did study with Caruso, so maybe he was able to get up to a strong high C on the "seconds".

Weed......Definitely Herb, he can afford to buy the best "cripp".

Chris

[ This Message was edited by: Mr.Hollywood on 2004-01-11 22:00 ]

AccentOnTrumpet · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Nov 2002 Posts: 878

hahahahahahahaha

jazzffriend · Regular Member Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 47

Herb is a fine player, just doesn't practice much because he runs a record and publishing company !!

jazzffriend · Regular Member Joined: 18 Jan 2004 Posts: 47

Who's a better improvisor ? Herb or Chuck (mangione) ??

tomba51 · Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject:

Chuck is a better improvisor. He actually played with Art Blakey's Jazz Messengers for a short period.

Tom
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gmonteith · Veteran Member Joined: 05 Dec 2002 Posts: 104

Just finished reading "Deep in a Dream," the recent biography of Chet Baker. Even though he mistreated almost every one of them, he ALWAYS had women around him, hopeless junkie that he was. And even though he shot three to four times as much heroin as most other junkies, he seemed to to have a pretty active love life (according to the book).

Now, I don't know anything about Herb Alpert . . .

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

I'm pretty familiar with Herb Alpert, having met him a couple times and followed his career since about 1966...

I know very little about Chet Baker.

I don't really take the initial question seriously, but I'd like to offer these comments for anyone who might be interested in a serious reply...

1. Herb Alpert is married to Lani Hall, former singer with Sergio Mendes and Brasil 66, a well known and successful bossa nova type group most popular back in the sixties. He has been married to Lani for many years - over 30 years now. Prior to that he was married to his first wife Sharon for several years. Sergio Mendes and Brasil 66 recorded several albums on A&M Records, the label owned by Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss. That company no longer exists, as it was sold by its owners several years ago to a larger company...don't recall the line of succession, but I think it was initially Polygram, and then Universal took over later on...A&M Records is often said to have been the most successful independent record label in history.

So, in terms of women, he seems to have maintained generally stable relationships for most of his life, having been married twice. He will be 69 years old March 31.

2. High Notes. I do not know the extent of Herb Alpert's range. He has not demonstrated this issue on any of his recordings, and from what I have learned from and about him, he does not consider this to be an important issue for his purposes as a musician. Herb Alpert has not presented himself as a high note trumpet player. IMO, he is more of a trumpet "stylist" than a technician. He does not attempt to compare himself with such as Sandoval, Faddis, etc. Yes, I understand that he has studied with Carmine Caruso, and also played trumpet in an Army band. I think it was at the Presidio in San Francisco, where he often played Taps as needed.

In terms of trumpet playing, Herb has not released any recordings for about five years now, and he seems to be retired from recording and business pursuits. If you study Herb Alpert's musical career and business history, you can conclude that the ongoing pursuit of money is totally unnecessary for Herb Alpert...

3. The other issue doesn't deserve any kind of response, so I'll refrain from any comment.

As to how all this compares with Chet, I don't really know. IMHO, I don't think they are very "comparable" in any way.

Edited for grammar and spelling...

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bigaggietrumpet · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 1:56 pm Post subject:

Well, personally, I don't know much about Chet either, but..
1) I think DaveH handled that better than anyone.
2) The highest I've ever heard was on Casino Royale w/TJB. Now, I don't know if that was Herb, but somebody, towards the end of the song, decided to hit some fairly high notes.
3) Ah, come on man. Show some respect for a legend...

Horn of Praise · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:31 pm Post subject:

When it comes to Herb, DaveH is the "man". Of course, I wouldn't count Charly Raymond out, either.

I believe the "screaming" note in about the middle of "Casino Royale" is a Double High A (I have been told).

Herb has always come across as a soft-spoken gentleman. I have never heard, or read, anyone speaking ill of him. Of course, he's in his late sixties. That is a different generation...people were generally, as a rule, raised with manners.

All the best.

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[ This Message was edited by: Horn of Praise on 2004-01-26 17:33 ]

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass were my "heroes" back there in the sixties. I played in a TJB "copy" band (or tribute band if you will) back then, and even got the chance to play for, and meet and talk to Herb. On one occasion, we played on a float that "escorted" Herb's courtesy car for the big parade in Akron, Ohio, when he was here for the All American Soap Box Derby in 1968. We even had our group photo autographed by Herb and all the TJB. Great fun and some very special memories...I've been a big fan since about 1966, with GOING PLACES as my first album - I've managed to get all of the albums, from Lonely Bull to Brass Are Comin'. After hearing them play in concert in 1968(and in again in 1969), I knew I was a fan for life. Herb has been a huge influence on my musical and trumpet experience since I started listening to the TJB back in about 1966.

My understanding about Casino Royale is as follows...

After he had recorded the background orchestration, Burt Bacharach, the composer of the song, asked Herb Alpert to provide the trumpet parts that make up the basic melody of the song. So, the melody lines played by Herb Alpert were recorded subsequent to the orchestration. The high note lick that you hear in the song would have already been part of the recording when Herb added his parts.

I cannot be sure, but I have heard that it may have been Bud Brisbois who played the part to which you refer.

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2004-01-26 17:49 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2004-01-26 17:50 ]

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:53 pm Post subject:

I've heard, from very reliable sources, that Ollie Mitchell (and a few others) did a lot of recording on TJB recordings. I wonder how much of it Toni Kalash did.

I have three TJB tribute shows this week, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. The other players that I use in the band are unanimous in voting this there favorite gig, and they're all very busy free lancers around FL. But playing the TJB is fun stuff and Zorba is no slouch chart. It doesn't hurt that the bread is real good, too.

Chet Baker was obviously a jazz giant. Not many players, trumpet or otherwise are in his league. OTOH, Herb Alpert probably influenced more trumpet players than anyone in history. According to his website, 72 mill record sales to date.

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Hi, bugleboy,

Go over to http://www.amcorner.com

We've been having a discussion over there about what Herb may have actually played and not played. It's under the thread titled "not Herb?" Also, in that thread is a link to Carol Kaye's website (as you probably know, she has tons of studio credits on guitar and bass guitar that extend back into the sixties and also some TJB recordings), and Ollie Mitchell's role in the old TJB recordings...evidently Ollie did play with Herb on some things...check it out.

Ollie has a website at http://www.olliephonics.com

The general opinion that I am familiar with is that Tonni Kalash did very little, if any, recording studio work. Rather, his involvement was limited to the concert stage...as I have heard from various sources. Especially an interview with TJB bassist Pat Senatore. It is told that Herb played all the trumpet lines in the studio...overdubbed till the sound was what he wanted...

I sort of envy your TJB performance opportunities...sometimes I wish I could go back and "revive" the past...

Best regards...

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bigaggietrumpet · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject:

Well, whether he hit that screamer in Casino Royale or not, he did play Zorba, and that right there puts him high in my book. I was very fortunate to find that CD (though I still find it sad that instead of a rap song as my favorite song around 5 years ago, it was actually Taste of Honey. I still think I am one of the few people under 20 who actually know who Herb Alpert is). He also helped the Carpenters off to a good start and great career, another brilliant move.
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_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject:

Dave,

Thanks for the heads up on http://www.amcorner.com

I have made an offering over thereregarding that thread.

I sort of envy your TJB performance opportunities

Ya. It is amazing how many people still come out for a TJB show. They're sold out every time. Great stuff!

Charly

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

You can say whatever you want to about Herb's playing, but he did keep the trumpet "out there" in the public eye for a lot of years after rock and roll and electric guitars had taken over.

Who knows how many jobs over the years a guy like that has generated for all of us.

Chris

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

I think that Herb is a better player than many trumpet players give him credit for being. He does not use the high range as his vehicle of expression, and I find that a relief, so to speak... He has a special tone quality and expression that are, IMO, unique and second to none. My opinion has always been that anyone who can play the trumpet lines in Zorba the Greek as cleanly and precisely as you hear on the record and sound that good, is a very good player. I love to hear him play a ballad, such as Tangerine, Mae, The Shadow of Your Smile, etc. IMO, no one does it better. Just superb "feeling" and "styling."

And he certainly did much to popularize the trumpet in particular and instrumental music in general. That indeed has been to everyone's benefit.

I post as captaindave on the A&M forum mentioned above...

Horn of Praise · Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:36 pm Post subject:

Charly, it's good to see you posting! Should you really be getting paid for having "too much fun" (on gigs)?

DaveH, Herb's strength is his awesome phrasing. When you can make a horn "sing" like that, you don't have to be a "screamer".

All the best (you two).
_________________
PAUL NELSON - Eclipse White Lightning / Getzen Eterna 900 Classic / Monette B4LD / Blue Juice

Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2026

Back to the original question.

A. Chet

B. Herb

C. Chet

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Amen to that, Paul,

Herb is what I call a "smart" player. He knows what he does well, and doesn't try to do what others may do better. He is in a class by himself without any real competition. In terms of sound and tone, he stands alone. You can tell right away when you hear the beginning of a Herb recording that you are listening to Herb. There is just no one else who sounds like he does.
He knows and capitalizes on his strengths - areas where he really excels, and maximizes them with an uncanny insight when it comes to choice of songs, arrangements, originality and creativity in style and sound, and surrounds himself on his recordings and concerts with great players. If I could be like any great/famous player, past or present, I'd choose Herb any day.

I think another thing that Herb is really good at, and it is something I have always admired about him, is his ability to create a "mood." He captures a feeling with his songs and his playing, and he has a real ability to share that with the listener - to communicate. When I listen to the TJB recordings, I get caught up in different moods and feelings that I feel he is communicating.

He is like an excellent vocalist, using the horn to draw you into a mood, like an outstanding vocalist can do with the voice. Herb is, IMO, the "Frank Sinatra" of trumpet players...

Best wishes...

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2004-01-28 17:16 ]