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Good Valve Trombone for doubling???



 
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HorneyMikey
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Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 325

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys and gals.

It is the middle of winter in Minneapolis, and I am bored silly. Plus, I am having some tension in my chops.

I realize this is a trumpet forum, but I think it is time to get a valve trombone. For those of you who do double on valve trombone, what do you think is the best one out there? Obviously good intonation is a major factor (or as good as it can be on a "cheating" instrument).

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

mike
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Stevie Mac
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Joined: 20 Mar 2002
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mikey
You might look for a Getzen,,They have been making these for marching bands for years,
Good valves ( maybe the best?) and a decent horn and it should not take you to the poor house,,
Hope this helps a bit
PLay well or Silently
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Billy
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Joined: 03 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biggest problem with valve trombones is their tendency to play very "stuffy" and of course intonation problems. I have found the best horns are the 55-64 Conns, some of the 1950's Reynolds (w/ the R counterweight), the 50's Olds. The King 2B is an ok horn which can be readily found on ebay. The marching band type flugabones I think are awful. Bass trumpets are cool.........look for an older Holton or Getzen.
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dwm1129
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Joined: 19 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intonation is a problem on any valve trombone it's got it's own set of tuning problems than the trumpet does you will use the third valve instead of 1+2 more than you ever did on trumpet. After trying a number of trombones I ended up buying a used King 3B valve trombone with a silversonic slide which I tend to use more because it's blows so much easier and has a nicer tone. Try as many valve trombones as you can to see what fits you best.
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tom turner
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I've got a vintage Olds trombone in a little "larger-sized" original Olds case than would seem normal.

Inside the case is a cool thing Olds once did . . . it holds a complete "kit" that includes THREE pieces vs. the usual two:

1. Conventional slide unit

2. Valve trombone unit.

3. Bell assembly

The cool thing about it is that a trumpeter can use it as a valve trombone until he/she develops the skills to use the slide!

INTONATION?

1. Pretty darn good used as a valve trombone!

2. Infinitely adjustable as a slide trombone (of course)!

Cool huh!!!

(Rich Wiley . . . EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!)

Tom
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BeboppinFool
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Joined: 28 Dec 2001
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Location: AVL|NC|USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Tuner . . . I'll stick with my bass trumpet, thanks. After years of playing valve trombone (in the trombone section) I don't care to go back there. Besides, bass trumpets aren't ever accused of being "cheat trombones" and their intonation is significantly better, in my experience.

But what do I know?

By the way, there are two "L's" in Willey, Mr. Tuner.

Rich
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HorneyMikey
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Joined: 18 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I am better off getting a bass trumpet instead of a valve trombone?
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator


Joined: 28 Dec 2001
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Location: AVL|NC|USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-01-14 16:46, HorneyMikey wrote:
So I am better off getting a bass trumpet instead of a valve trombone?

Generally speaking a bass trumpet will have inherently better pitch than a valve bone. This has been my experience. The subject of "stuffiness" came up (above) and I have found that bass trumpet might actually feel stuffier than a good valve bone. A bass trumpet is reputed to have a "brighter" sound, but I never thought that was true.

I had a mid-60's Conn valve bone that was the easiest-playing, best-in-tune valve bone I ever owned. The only problem with that horn was partly due to the fact that my hands are so big, the only comfortable way I found to hold that horn would pinch a nerve in my thumb.

10 or 12 years ago I had a Bach Strad valve bone that was also an excellent horn, and about 22 years ago I had a Getzen valve bone (new in '82) designed by Rich Matteson that was also an excellent valve bone. However, the bass trumpet I now play (Getzen, also designed by Rich Matteson) has been my favorite horn for quite some time, now (this one was made in '73).

Like a dummy I let it go in favor of a Bach Strad bass trumpet, and I was never convinced by the Bach. The guy who had bought my Getzen got in touch with me and offered to sell it back to me, and I'm so glad to have recovered my "baby."

The best thing about bass trumpet is that I'm still a trumpet player!

(Not that there's anything wrong with trombone players.)

Rich
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James B. Quick
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yah, go with the bass trumpet. I have had both the old and the new Getzen (300 Series, and the newer wrap model), and a Holton. All were much fun and good playing. I now use a Meinl Weston 4-rotary valve bass trumpet in C for my tenor parts.... Use a smallish mouthpiece like a Schilke 42 up to about a Schilke 47. . . Maybe a B cup.... fun fun jbqd
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jhaysom
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Joined: 13 Nov 2001
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have any experience with a bass trumpet so can't challenge Rich on that. But if you decide on valve trombone, I would strongly recommend a King 2B Liberty model. I used to have a Blessing and thought it was a fine horn until I tried another fellow's King 2B at a jam session. I was really impressed with its sound and ease of playing. About a year later, I tried it again and my initial impressions were confirmed. I decided I had to have one and eventually got one on ebay. It's great!

You can't buy them new but they come up on ebay every once in a while. One piece of advise I got from an ebay seller was that the 2B and 3B valves sections are identical. Since 3B valve trombones come up a bit more frequently than 2B's, I bought a 3B and was lucky that a 2B bell came up on ebay at around the same time. It cost less than C$100 to match the 2B bell to the 3B valve section.
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Yamaha 8310ZS trumpet
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1941 King Silvertone cornet
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Kanstul 920 piccolo
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HorneyMikey
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Joined: 18 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, thanks for all the input. I will certainly keep my eye open for a King, but if I have to get a bass trumpet instead, does anybody know if the bass trumpet takes a trombone mouthpiece, or a special bass trumpet mouthpiece?

mike

[ This Message was edited by: HorneyMikey on 2004-01-15 15:31 ]
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James B. Quick
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Joined: 17 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bass trumpet uses a tenor trombone mouthpiece... jbqd
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