buzzing firmness in upstreamers

[MadsTB]

Hi all! this is my first post on here! looking forward to finally ask some question about Reinhardts teachings!

I got the encyclopedia a while ago and found myself a bit confused by the buzzing firmness setup, especially for upstreamers.

Are upstreamers told to form a buzzing embouchure with the saliva etc. then place the mouthpiece on this firm platform. like walking the mouthpiece on, without buzzing. or am i mistaken. me myself as a low placement type cant get this to work with the lower lip rolled in as much as when buzzing.

is this viable for discussion here or should it be explained over a lesson?

he also wrote that there should be no pucker upon placement, how does that makes sense if you are to have a buzzing firmness? im not completely in on reinhardts definition of pucker i guess.

anyone got time to explain some of this?

[JoshMizruchi]

OK, so I’m a IV. IVs can often play either dry or wet. Cat Anderson is one IV who played totally dry, although I am sure there are plenty more (I just can’t think of them offhand).

Certainly, any successful IV cannot be questioned for playing dry if that’s what they prefer. However, as Reinhardt said in the encyclopedia, “In the Pivot System, a wet embouchure is always the first choice.” This translates to me as that if you’re going to practice Reinhardt material, a wet embouchure works best.

Prior to Reinhardt study, I played both dry and wet, somewhat preferring dry, actually. However, after beginning Reinhardt study, I switched to a mostly wet embouchure. I even went so far as to over-lubricate, which Reinhardt always said was better than under-lubricating. I am happy I made this decision, for a host of reasons.

Forming the buzzing embouchure and playing is an interesting topic, and ironically one I have been working on myself. I would say that forming with the buzzing embouchure is usually ideal, especially when practicing, because for me, it saves chops. However, there are gig situations, particularly with jazz playing, where this approach can frankly become tiring and frustrating. I find that if I try to form my embouchure before taking a solo and I make a placement error or get distracted or any one thing, it can bother me the whole solo, so it’s better for me to just get on the gig, forget most Reinhardt stuff and just try to make good, as Reinhardt said.

However, carrying out these mechanical procedures in the practice room has definitely helped my playing.

The pucker is something that happens after you have taken a breath and are pivoting. It happens whether you’re forming with buzzing firmness or not, although if you are smiling to ascend (one of the most destructive habits), you might not be puckering at all. But pretty much anybody who isn’t doing that is puckering, it’s just that all that happens after the breath and after the embouchure has already been formed.

Josh
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Josh Mizruchi
http://www.joshmizruchi.com

[JayKosta]

Can someone explain how the term 'pucker' is to be understood for Reinhardt?

My 'general language' understanding is that 'lip pucker' typically involves rolling the soft pink lip tissue outward to expose more of that surface, along with some inward constriction of the tissue near the teeth.

Does that also apply to Reinhardt's use of the word?

And how are Reinhardt's terms 'form' and 'pucker' related?
Is a 'pucker' done as the first step, and then perform a second step of changing the pucker by forming the lips?
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[Doug Elliott]

It is NOT "rolling out" in any sense.
It's "corners forward" from their backward inhalation position.