How did you learn to play high notes?

[stuartissimo]

For reference, 'high' in the context of this question means above the C above the staff or higher.

Feel free to add context to your answer if you so desire

[patdublc]

I picked other so I'm honoring the request and including a comment. I took an approach of getting coaching from as many people as possible on trumpet playing efficiency. My belief was - and continues to be - that if you play efficiently, then all other aspects of playing will improve.
The very first person that I met with on this journey was Vaughn Nark. Vaughn gave me a lot of information and ideas that I continue to use today. I only took one lesson from Vaughn.

I was fascinated with the learnings from Vaughn and then started to coach with others. I'm sure that I'm missing some people here but the following list represents artists that I have taken one or more lessons with. For some of these people, I have taken several lessons and developed ongoing friendships where we discuss different aspects of playing. Many of these would be considered commercial players, but not all - balance in approach is very important.

Paul Baron, Trent Austin, Jeanne Pocius, Patrick Hessions, Bobby Shew, Wayne Bergeron, Frank Glasson, Rodney Marsalis, Jose Sibaja, Roger Ingram, Wayne du Maine, Kurt Dupuis, Jon Faddis, Jeremy Miloszewicz, Richard Cox, Russ Miles, Jim Anno, John Lamkin.

Then there are others like Tony Kadleck and Joey Pero who I have learned from through conversation but I don't believe have ever heard me play a single note.

It's really been a fascinating journey and I don't play like any of those people. But, in some way, they have all influenced my playing in a positive way.

My point is - learn everything that you can from everyone that you can and work on being a good all around trumpet player.
_________________
Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models.

[JayKosta]

The 'spark' that lead to my views and opinions came from learning ideas in the Costello-Stevens method. I don't use that method, but it got me thinking about two things that I feel are critical -

1) The lips have to be ABLE to vibrate - not inhibited by rim pressure or extreme muscle use.
2) Productive use of the lower lip and jaw - to control the distribution of rim pressure, and adjusting lip 'posture' - so that #1 is achieved.

I've read a fair amount about other 'embouchure' methods and descriptions, and they often have their own 'details' / and 'quirks', but from what I can tell they all have those 2 items as 'must have' fundamentals (often not explicitly stated, but very obvious when analyzed).
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[huntman10]

While I did have a private teacher in high school, I never heard him play anything above the first leger line A. I decided I wanted to play the Haydn trumpet concerto, which goes to high Eb. I probably learned more about upper range by watching Doc Severinsen every week night and practicing in front of a mirror imitating Doc's embouchure in our basement (Dad said he added the basement when we moved into a new house built in town, which was a lot better than practicing in the old dusty barn.). I got that Eb down, took it to state finals (I was a bit sloppy, but nailed the Eb) and had a 4th leger G for my college audition (with my Strad 181 37 ML.cornet and 1 1/4 C, no period, for the record.)

I don't claim to be any kind of lead player, at all, but that range comes in handy for playing Eb Soprano. My useful range is still about what it was 55 years ago. I sometimes can get a lot higher than double C in my informal semi-Caruso warmup (since my college instructor turned me on to it in 1969), but if I can't do it on stage, it doesn't mean anything, except maybe to impress the newbies in pre-Brass Band (warm up) and tire me out early.
_________________
huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc.

[stuartissimo]

[Seymor B Fudd]

I didn´t learn to play high. Aside from the very first year 1957 when our director instructed me to "put the mouthpiece to your lips, then kind of spit" and watched me get the grip of tones up to say G top of staff, joining the band in 1958 I never took a lesson until 2015.

Practicing eagerly I made it to front row cornet mid 1960s, found that I was able to play rather high (meaning Eb/E) I then was one of the two founding fathers of a swing band, playing lead from the start 1968. I found that I could nail F/Fsharps and even an occasional G (more of a squeak). Everything on a Vincent Bach 1 1/4 C.

My practice regimen was (apart from Arban now and then like most of us I tried (and failed) the Carnival of Venice) - the Charles Colin Advanced Lip Flexibilities. Almost every day but 30 -45 minutes + band rehearsals. Always knew this was far too little.

So how come I was able to play that high? Not super high of course but high enough for the swingband repertoire (mostly swing original scores)
And of course not high enough for lead playing in a modern big band.
I had great success as the sopranoman for many years in the brass band.

Mouthpiece placement a little to the right, a front tooth that is somewhat short, rather powerful lungs. So I must have done something right.
But what???

Today I struggle regaining my range and am on a very good track, immensely helped by the BE (and Jeff Smiley). I´ve learned that my previous embouchure lacked many necessary features. I.e I had a smiling kind of approach; Placement too low on top lip, too weak corners the aperture flabby, kind of; too little air support; no idea whatsoever concerning the placement of the tongue. Etc etc.

But I remember a guy, probably with a background close to mine, who was the real "wallpaper splitter". His range was up to double high C, solid.
Always wearing a "kindney belt" thus trying to safe guard against cracking valuable intestines....He played lead in the second big band at the university, the best one...eventually evolving into one of the best in Sweden during the 1980s.

But why such a range? The existence of an embouchure set that is more
beneficial??

Who taught Maynard??
_________________
Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974)

[dershem]

When I started I had a natural high range - by the end of my first semester in junior high I had a solid C above the staff. Alas, my technique (which was never considered by my band teacher) was not great, and my Brother, who I only saw once a year, never sat down with me to work on it. He just listened and said semi-random things without explaining them. (Like "you should use less pressure" without showing me how). It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I managed to get a few lessons from Red Rodney, who showed me what I was doing right and wrong. He added an easy octave to my range (if I play enough to keep in good shape). That made a lot of stuff my Brother had fall into place, and when I was playing a lot, I had a solid G above double-C. So it was mostly experience and just enough really good lessons. Might be a normal balance? I dunno.
_________________
BKA! Mic Gillette was my mentor and friend.
Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces.

[JayKosta]

It would give 'added value' to this discussion by including some info about the particular things that were learned how to do, and how learning 'about them' and how to 'do them' came about - especially if there was a particular way that a teacher presented the information, or acted as a guide.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[PH]

[Jaw04]

Experimentation, following a routine, not sticking to any particular pedagogy, reading books, practicing a lot, taking time off, focusing on air, not focusing on air, changing embouchures, letting the chops do "whatever", warming up a lot, not warming up, practicing loud, practicing soft, focusing on tongue position, not thinking about tongue position, changing gear, going back to what I always played on, etc... the point I'm trying to make is I believe developing trumpet technique from many different angles, sometimes conflicting approaches, has led to me figuring it out and it's difficult to pin down what actually worked. And my approach changes still. Lately I'm focused on good posture being of vital importance and relatively relaxed embouchure and it's working great. Solid range up to high G with consistency, ease and a nice sound, more centered and connected than in the past. But perhaps its only working so well because I already spent a lot of time in the past doing other stuff!

[steve0930]

Jaw04's post has good pedigree

[brassmoose]

Spent over 30 years without consistent range above high C. I could squeak out a high F# randomly once or twice a night on the gig. My endurance was terrible, too. After mouthpiece changes didn't "fix" it, I started reading all I could and started experimenting with those findings and started getting improvements. Started hitting high F# consistently at home, then G, then A; but not on the gig & my endurance still suffered.

Took some lessons with Greg Lyons here in Seattle & he solidified what I was reading. He taught me how to experiment better as well. Two years later, I now hit high F# and maybe high G as often as I want through a 75-90 gig (loud funk bands).

Some good docs:
https://scholarship.miami.edu/esploro/outputs/doctoral/A-Strategy-for-Proper-Utilization-of/991031448066602976

https://www.amazon.com/O5145-Brass-Playing-Harder-Breathing/dp/0825828708

The Balanced Embouchure

Also Sprach Jacob Arnolds

https://vizzutti.com/merchandise/ols/products/high-notes-pdf

[ldwoods]

I answered "Mostly experimentation/info gathering on your own, some help from teacher(s)", but need to clarify, I do NOT have a good upper range. Even when I was playing and practicing regularly, my best was to force a D (above Hi C) which I did in the finale of a live performance.

I have taken lessons from various people, but never seemed to "get the knack" of really playing well much above the staff. I have not given up yet, but keep searching for the answer(s).
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[cbtj51]

High range as a focus? I answered "Mostly Experimentation/info gathering...". Not a "thing" that I chased after.

I started on trumpet in Elementary school but switched to Euphonium during Jr. High and pursued that as my main instrument until my 2nd year of college, then switching to trumpet almost exclusively. Through that same Euphonium time period (14 years old until 19 years old) I also played Solo Soprano Bugle in Drum and Bugle Corps. I divided my practice time mostly equal to help develop and maintain my chops over the mouthpiece and air support differences. Learning to get a big core sound in my head for each instrument was the bigger challenge without one negatively impacting the other, at least initially. I had a decent enough trumpet, an older Besson that worked well and I loved practicing Schlossberg and Clarke on the Euphonium and trumpet. My upper range on both instruments just slotted easily and seemed a very natural part of playing with the proper whole body air support.

Big, fat centered sound has always been important to me, so I practice the things that make that work. Even at 72 and back playing and performing publicly regularly for 8 years after a 14 year layoff, my range has not diminished in any way, though the music that I play these days rarely calls for anything higher than high F, F#, and G.

Trumpet is still very challenging and a whole bunch of fun. My wife is a trumpet player as well and that keeps me going.

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
_________________
'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[Shaft]

-Listening to nearly all of the trumpet artists on cd & some live in concert.
-Learning mechanics from Clint Mclaughlin and many lessons w/ him.
-Don Jacoby’s book & learning his approach through Clint M.
-Reading Roddy O’s embouchure book.
-Reading the Stevens/ Costello book.
-Learning the approach from Jim Manley along with equipment choices regarding mpc shapes/ sizes & suitable trumpet choices via Skype lessons & correspondance.

[Boilertpt]

My first trumpet teacher taught me some basics of the Caruso method in the middle of high school. That helped me go from an ok high C to decent high G albeit using (in retrospect) poor technique (excess pressure, forcing it, etc.) that was 15 or so years ago.

A few years ago, I put the horn down (life got in the way). After coming back, I came across Jon Ruff's YouTube channel, and his videos *really* helped me. His whole concept that range isn't about strength but about finding what you need to do with your mouth to play the notes was kinda groundbreaking for me.

After watching a lot of his videos, I started working through the Irons' book. Being very cognizant of tongue arch and focusing on that when moving through the registers really unlocked things for me. I have solid Gs on my orchestral piece (Reeves 1.5C), which I wouldn't have dreamed previously. The video of Jim Manley showing breathing techniques to Kevin Burns and Brian MacDonald was also helpful to me, although I'm still working on internalizing those ideas. His ideas of exploring range in different ways (scales, arpeggios, lip slurs) were also very helpful.

When reading about the Caruso method on TH I came across Flexus by Laurie Frink. The Caruso extensions were incredibly helpful as were the flexando exercises (glisses from the bottom to top of a harmonic series). (In addition to helping my range, that book transformed my warmup routine.)

After those first lessons in Caruso I could play pretty high, but it wasn't until these more recent discoveries that I could play high easily. I only came across Jon Ruff and his videos after his passing, but he was instrumental in getting my range to where it is today.

[Tpt_Guy]

Pretty much all of them, actually. I had teachers help me with the basics, but after I stopped taking lessons I sort of stagnated on range. I purchased various books, watched videos on YouTube, watched people play and all of it helped to some degree. I think what really had the most effect were two factors, though I did them in the opposite order of what is listed here:

1) I started experimenting with finding mouthpieces that were better suited to me and were balanced. Not just the rim and cup, but also the throat and backbore. I read the Conn "blue book" by Jodi C. Hall and took it to heart. Using that information helped me narrow down what mouthpiece characteristics work for me and then playing got easier across the whole horn, not just up high.

2) I read Pops' article "Factors for a Dynamic Embouchure" and saw that he mentioned there was straight lip against lip compression as a factor in playing. I had always avoided this technique because I had been taught it was too tense and would pinch the sound, but I thought, "What the hell, I'll just try it." and while initially it took some effort, I succeeded in adding a fifth to my range practically overnight, jumping from a solid High C to a pretty full High G on a Curry 1BC. I was pretty startled by it. I also noticed that it seemed -- seemed -- that my airstream flipped from downstream to upstream, so I read more about Reinhardt's teachings, in particular the writings on Dave Wilken's blog. I found that I suddenly got the slightly less full low register sound that can be common with upstream types and that I was able to play slightly narrower mouthpieces (this was a big no-no before). I noticed my horn angle straightened out (raised up to nearly perpendicular to my face) and my mouthpiece placement shifted a bit lower. Over time, my sound brightened up a bit and I came to embrace a more brilliant sound, rather than the "dark" (read: dull) sound I had been going for. So it turns out that in my misguided effort to play with zero effort, I was missing a prime ingredient to expanding my range. (Note: I haven't had a Reinhardt teacher evaluate my playing. I'm just noting the changes I observed in myself and how it lines up with what I've read. I'm not too worried about being evaluated, because what I'm doing is working.)

This is where I think a "chop doc" is important: Some students need to be told what to do. Many great teachers can help a student develop a fantastic embouchure and technique by listening and assigning the correct exercises to guide students to results. Clarke, for example, has the instruction of playing everything in Technical Studies for Cornet at a pianissimo dynamic. Well, playing like that has the effect of developing a proper lip setting, and what that setting is varies from player to player. This doesn't necessarily work for everyone, and for those students who have to be told what to do and an embouchure specialist, or at least someone who really understands the mechanics, is the person for that job. When I was taking lessons, my teachers assigned me exercises that got me so far. Their approach was one of focusing on making music, with the idea that mechanics would take care of themselves. That approach is better for more advanced players than I was. I was missing the mechanical teaching I needed to push it further.

Anyway, this was longer than it needed to be. I hope it makes sense.
_________________
-Tom Hall-

"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee

[kehaulani]

How high is high? For me it was a playable Double High C and a functional E over High C.

I don't need volumes to explain it. For me, it was simple. It was the realisation that you don't need to clamp your lips down like a weightlifter but to keep a supple and varied size lip opening for the air to pass through.

And that getting away from the concept that free buzzing, then buzzing into the mouthpiece, then amplifying it into the horn. Leadpipe blowing helped me a lot. The rest of it is sensitivity and application.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[BRM2]

Experimentation/info gathering on your own
This is a very good question. I can clearly remember when I had a few "aha" moments.

1998: "Double High C in 37 Weeks" Spaulding
This was 2 years after high school while in the Army Band. I never really worked on range before this. It introduced me to the idea of "Compression." At the time I was playing a bored out Bach 1 Megatone and I thrusted my jaw forward to create compression (lip to lip) for the higher notes. I thought about this as I practiced the exercises from the book. I think this method introduced me to "Anchor Tonguing." I can't remember. I went from a high "C" player to like a high "F#". I was able to struggle through struggle through some Salsa gigs. I do not thrust my jaw forward now for compression though.

2001 "Maggio Method" Carlton McBeth
This book introduced me to syllable to use when playing. I may have puckered a bit when I used the method. The exercises then re-enforced the use of the syllables in the different registers and improved my accuracy tremendously. The introduction of the "ICH" syllable (more of a hissing sound to me) was a game changer past high "C".

2001 Lead Book for Big Band
All of the real lead players had already left the band and all I could do was practice the lead book every day in order to figure it out. I was in Japan at the time and the language barrier prevented lessons at the time. Playing the parts up there got me more comfortable.

2002 "Air on the Move" Clint "Pops"McLaughlin
This book reiterated the use of syllables and introduced me to more of a "hissing"sound for higher notes. The key point I got from the book was the use of less air for higher notes. At some point in time in the book he mentioned to try to play a high "G" by taking in half of the breath you would normally take. He also talked about pulling abdomen in to create compression as well. When I eventually tried it, the high "G"came out way easier. I even talked a trombone player into trying it and she had the same results. I also worked on soft playing as well.

From 2001 to 2002, I felt more comfortable playing lead charts with lots of preparation. I felt way more confident in terms of using the range that I had. I only ever needed to play to a high "F#" but I had practice room noted up double high "C". I was playing on Medium shallow equipment at the time like a Curry 1M and GR 67M.

These particular books were the key things that influenced my improvement in improving my range. I had just about all of the traditional trumpet method books and range building books (Sold most of them on TrumpetHerald. These books gave me a game plan on what to think about and do when practicing exercises and playing music. I am currently playing on a Marcinkiweicz E.13 C.Findley for everything and can play things like Brian Setzer's "Let it Snow."

I still don't consider myself a Lead Player despite my range. I still struggle with endurance. I am not saying that I have no endurance. I just don't have the endurance of those Lead Players that can go all night. I have to carefully pace myself and "mf" the S#!T of the music to make it through gigs.
_________________
BRM
Van Laar Chuck Findley(silver)
CarolBrass 5000L YST
Marcinkiewicz E13 C. FINDLEY
Lotus 2M (Bronze)
GR 67MS

[stuartissimo]