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gaviniden
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Joined: 01 Feb 2024
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Location: Ohio
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 Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 5:43 pm Post subject: Not playing in the center of my mouth |
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Will not playing in the center of my mouth affect my playing? Or am I free to play to the side  I play on the side of my mouth and my director hates it. Will it be a issue in the future? |
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astadler
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Joined: 11 Feb 2014
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Is your tone good? If so you’ll be fine. If not, it’s impossible to say for sure without more information, probably hearing you in person. |
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gaviniden
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:07 pm Post subject: not playing in center of mouth |
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| my tone is pretty good |
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astadler
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Location: Little Rock, AR
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I would check that fact with a teacher. If your sound is good then any decent teacher would say “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it,” but I’d want an expert to confirm that your sound is good (and good in this case means no obvious issues in the sound, not just “good for your grade/school,” which is hard to judge yourself) rather than just decide yourself. |
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Doug Elliott
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Put it where it works best.
Mine is far to the left. That's where it works best. I played close to the middle for 20 years before I discovered that wasn't the best place for me. |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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When I was in H.S. one of the best players in the state played off-center.
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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stuartissimo
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Joined: 17 Dec 2021
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Location: Europe
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:51 pm Post subject: Re: Not playing in the center of my mouth |
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| gaviniden wrote: | | Will not playing in the center of my mouth affect my playing? |
Yes, but not neccesarily in a good way.
| gaviniden wrote: | | I play on the side of my mouth and my director hates it. Will it be a issue in the future? |
Show your director how you sound when you play dead center. They may change their mind and may prefer you play they way you do now. Mine probably would.
| Doug Elliott wrote: | Put it where it works best.
Mine is far to the left. That's where it works best. I played close to the middle for 20 years before I discovered that wasn't the best place for me. |
Somewhat similar for me. Not entirely sure whether it's 'better', but playing slightly to the side was part of my embouchure change and I've been playing and sounding tons better than I used to. I'm not 100% sure sideways position is 100% responsible for that though, or just something that happened over time.
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1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
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spitvalve
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Joined: 11 Mar 2002
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Location: Little Elm, TX
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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Been playing off-center now for over 50 years. Don't know if it's been a detriment to my playing because I've never played in the center. I can't look at pictures or video of me playing because it looks too weird, but most people who have seen and heard me play don't care that I play off to one side as long as they like what they hear.
Crooked teeth is the main reason. I started playing off-center right off the bat in 5th grade. I got braces in 7th grade and got them off in 9th grade and my teeth were straight, but the "sweet spot" was still off-center and (after I lost my retainer and never told my parents) the trumpet eventually pushed them crooked again. I don't care. I still had a decent enough smile to attract a pretty woman--we just celebrated our 30th wedding anniversary.
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
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david johnson
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| If you want to change try playing very slightly toward the mouth center for a few minutes each practice session. Takes a while. I had to move mine a tiny bit to the side after some dental surgery. |
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Shaft
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 4:00 am Post subject: |
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Clark Terry used to play trumpet and flugelhorn at the same time. Hence both instruments were off-center and he iwas doing a great job. Also heard that Herbert Clark could change the position on his lips whenever he got tired as well.
If it doesn’t affect the muscles in your face or your ability to change the shape for your embouchure and aperture size and everything, then it shouldn’t be an issue.
Normally people care about stuff like that when it’s affecting their fundamentals and everything else. |
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abontrumpet
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:59 am Post subject: |
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Don't worry about it. Directors usually have basic, but not full knowledge of brass playing.
Check out the trumpeter with less hair here. At the beginning you see his right side, and then at 2:13 you see his left. He plays off-center and he was in one of the best orchestras:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=AuLMeEqbk_s&ab_channel=BerlinerPhilharmoniker
Last edited by abontrumpet on Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve A
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ericmpena
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I play slightly off due to some scar tissue on my lip from playing over a blister. (Don’t ever do that!)
For a while I started playing too far to the left and had a good sound, but eventually realized that my upper register endurance was lacking…as well as my flexibility and control.
Now I’m mostly back to playing closer to the middle which has given me the most consistent results.
I have my method to check if a certain embouchure setup is limiting me or not…but everyone is different so I won’t share my process unless you’re curious to hear what works for me.
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JayKosta
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| ericmpena wrote: | ... For a while I started playing too far to the left and had a good sound, but eventually realized that my upper register endurance was lacking…as well as my flexibility and control.
Now I’m mostly back to playing closer to the middle which has given me the most consistent results. ... |
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The above is an important consideration - especially if the player sounds OK now, but wants to become better.
?? will the current mpc position inhibit future improvements?
And just because some excellent players have success with off-center placement doesn't mean it would be fine for everyone else.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:31 am Post subject: |
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So, what's your alternative, Jay?
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"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
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Adams F-1 Flghn |
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JayKosta
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | So, what's your alternative, Jay? |
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If the off-center position actually does cause a limitation to the player, then either:
1) try to find a mpc that will allow a better position. Ask band director if there is a box of misc trpt mpc that he could choose from.
2) have teeth fixed, or maybe some sort of teeth guard / wax / etc.
3) t-bone or tuba might be better.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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astadler
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Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: Little Rock, AR
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 7:46 am Post subject: |
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There are numerous documented cases of great players playing off to one side or another.
There are many reasons why someone’s range or endurance may be limited. Assuming that it’s related to playing off center is a leap that has no evidence to support it. If you have a good sound, don’t worry about it, but do check in with an expert to make sure that it’s not just a good sound “for your age” or “for your school,” and is actually a good sound with no apparent issues.
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Steve A
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Location: Toronto, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | | kehaulani wrote: | | So, what's your alternative, Jay? |
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If the off-center position actually does cause a limitation to the player, then either:
1) try to find a mpc that will allow a better position. Ask band director if there is a box of misc trpt mpc that he could choose from.
2) have teeth fixed, or maybe some sort of teeth guard / wax / etc.
3) t-bone or tuba might be better. |
I really don't like this advice, especially for someone who is, presumably a young player. Granted you're not saying "do 1, then 2, then 3", but
A: We haven't established that there's an actual problem with the existing setup, beyond the fact that the director apparently hates it. We don't know if that's because the director is knowledgeable and hears something that gives them good reason, in which case the director should be the one to suggest courses of action, or if the director doesn't know very much beyond the fact that it looks different than how they imagine a trumpet embouchure should look. It is an indisputable fact that many people play extremely well off to the side, so, based on the limited information we have here, I think that if there are in fact any problems here, what the director is hearing probably have more to do with the OP presumably being at an early stage of development than where their mouthpiece feels good.
B: Blindly fooling around with a box of mouthpieces is definitely a recipe for confusion, and if the OP isn't developed enough to know what is and is not moving them towards better playing (which seems likely if they're not sure about their embouchure placement), then giving them more variables to complicate things and one that's unlikely to meaningfully improve anything, will likely make things worse not better, and will almost certainly waste time and effort.
C: Doing anything to your teeth is terrible advice for a young player, and should absolutely not be undertaken by anyone other than an experienced adult who has already tried enough other possible fixes to their problems for long enough to be sure of what they're trying to do and why.
D: Similarly, changing instruments just because a director thinks your embouchure looks funny is mildly better than screwing with your teeth since it's at least not permanent, but it's also wildly and drastically overreacting.
The only correct answer to this question, rather than rattling off a bunch of drastic and invasive "solutions in search of a problem", is this:
Sit down in a room, one on one, with an experienced trumpet teacher, and try playing patiently and methodically through a series of level-appropriate exercises to see if the OP can play scales, flexibility exercises, articulation exercises, and exercises to test dynamic control. Only after doing that have we done anything to establish that there is in fact a problem, and only after doing that would we be in any way equipped to suggest solutions. Full stop.
If that is really and truly impossible for some reason, the far lesser solution would be to ask the OP to post a video of the same, as well as a piece they're currently playing for this director, as well as including information about how long they've been playing for, how much time they spend practicing in an average week, if they've taken lessons in the past, and with who, and for how long.
The correct answer is certainly not anything that suggests, "well, your mouthpiece might be wrong, so try fixing your problems with different mouthpieces, and, failing that, do something (what, I wonder?) to fix your teeth, or give up and pick a different instrument." |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3308
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Steve A wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: |
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If the off-center position actually does cause a limitation to the player, then ... |
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A: We haven't established that there's an actual problem with the existing setup, beyond the fact that the director apparently hates it. ... |
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Your write-up gives a good path for determining if there is a problem and what it might involve.
If the mpc position (or its size / style / instrument / etc. is 'the problem', then something will likely need to be changed.
_________________
Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Billy B
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Location: Des Moines
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| Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2024 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Not playing in the center of my mouth |
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| gaviniden wrote: | | Will not playing in the center of my mouth affect my playing? Or am I free to play to the side I play on the side of my mouth and my director hates it. Will it be an issue in the future? |
Why are you not centering the mouthpiece?
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