I.S.O. sweet sounding, "parlor" CORNET.

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

I love Cornets!
Probably, have a couple dozen (many years accumulation).

However; I really want a "parlor Cornet".
A sweet sounding horn that produces a somewhat lyrical tonality, and can retain that tonality at a relative whisper volume.

I don't need to "blend with a section". Mainly, performing solo work ... duet with organ, woodwinds.

So far, I can get in the ballpark with a pre-War F. Besson (Paris) Bb cornet, a 1930s York Airflow cornet, and an early 20th Century Boston Ne Plus Ultra 3-Star Cornet in C.

I like the way I can get close to this with a few Trumpets, also: a pre-War Couesnon Bb, a 1940s Couesnon C-Trumpet, and an early 1950s DesLaurier C Trumpet.
But, I prefer a Cornet. Think Chet Baker on Cornet.

I do not have any Cornets of French manufacture, aside from the F. Besson ... but, I am thinking a Cornet of this ilk is going to provide what I am seeking.
A Selmer Cornet??

Any suggestions ?
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[Andy Cooper]

Early 50's Roth shepherds' crook, Martin Indiana small bore - probably 50's - not the large bore Blessing version from the 60's. Benge 8Z shepherd's crook - even the UMI version. A Benge trumpet with the correct mouthpiece.

I would lean toward Benge - easier to find.

The mouthpiece will contribute a good deal to the sound and articulation you define as "sweet". Consider Stork's standard C cup (not the Traditional cup), the plain Bach 6 and some Bach B cups and perhaps Curry's VC or TC models. You are not after an overly deep cup.

[nieuwguyski]

I've owned two Selmer K-Modified cornets -- one .468" bore and one .457". Based on my experience, I don't think they're what you're looking for.

A horn you might want to seek out is a 1920's Conn 10A " Wonder Vocal" cornet. Here's a quote from a Conn catalog of the era, sourced from the excellent Conn Loyalist website:

"What Conn said in 1927:
The Wonder Vocal cornet is the most practical C, Bb and A cornet ever built, not alone because of its ease of adjustment from C to Bb and A but also for its easy blowing qualities and rich vocal tone when played in C. It is especially suited for choral and home use, as it plays from piano and song scores without transposition. When in Bb or A the Wonder Vocal cornet is a fine cornet for work in bands and orchestras."

The mention of it's suitability for home use is a giveaway: it truly was meant to be a parlor cornet. The surprising thing is that it (or at least mine) plays pretty much just as well in Bb as it does in C.
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[krax]

A Couturier conical bore cornet? I sold mine half a year ago, but that was the most lyrical cornet (brass instrument) I've played, especially when paired with a period, deep mouthpiece.

I had a French Gautié cornet from the late 19th century once, that one was also something similar, but with some more bite, to the tone, a rather heavy thing.

100 years plus, that's the age I think about when reading your description.

[Richard III]

First off, you have to go old, really old. Make sure it is a shepherd's crook style. Then play it with a mouthpiece from the same period. No, you can't use a modern mouthpiece that tries to replicate vintage sound. It just won't work.

For instance, if I play my 1903 Conn "The Wonder" cornet with a tiny but deep unmarked mouthpiece from the late 1800's, the sound is deep, dark and wonderfully quiet. Perfect for parlor playing.

Part of this is the super small bore size of the cornet. The other part is the mouthpiece properly fitting the old cornet. Insertion depth is part of it. But also the design is just not found in modern mouthpieces.

[img]CIMG2764 by genevie7, on Flickr[/img]
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

I believe you are onto something, there, Lads !

I have kept some old, vintage cornet (and trumpet) mouthpieces. Didn't they call them "cookie-cutters" ?

I have used them ... but, just experimentally ...on newer horns.

I shall try them on my old Boston 3-Star, and my vintage (pre-War) Besson.

My vintage York AirFlow cornet has the original case and mouthpiece, but it seems to be somewhat different than those "cookie-cutters", like my Conn Wonder, Henry Diston Mfg, Couesnon (Paris) mouthpieces.

Thanks for the tips !
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[bunny]

Selmer cornets usually seen in this country are American style long model cornets- extremely fine instruments but not a "parlor" sound. To me the French Besson cornets and the Boston cornets mentioned both give a lyrical sound- and as others here have said the older (100 year plus) horns mostly have a sound that is more delicate and doesn't like to be pushed. I have Courtois cornets from an 1870s Levy model to a 1990s Arban model that all share this quality to a greater or lesser extent. So this maker's concept of cornet sound changed less than most, at least in some models.

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

I really appreciate ALL the above comments and suggestions.
Means a lot to me!

Has me thinking ....
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

UPDATE ~

I seem to be having some success in my quest.

Rather than buy something (such as suggested here by helpful posters), I am focusing on a couple horns I already have:
A Boston 3-Star (currently configured as a C-pitched Cornet)
A pre-War Couesnon Monopole Conservatoire Bb Cornet.

As suggested by a few above TH posters, I am using a few different (period) vintage deep-V "cookie-cutter" mouthpieces.

There is an acclimation period on-going. I am pleased.
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[giakara]

I have a 1948 Selmer short model and a 1883 French Besson Brevette short model that have the sound concept you describe , both great sounding cornets .

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Xa27eajsgLYZo5CJ/

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Regards
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Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

[Halflip]

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

Same, here.

I cannot, will not join Facebook, under ANY circumstances.

"I pity the fool!" - - (Mr. T character from "The A-Team")
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[OldSchoolEuph]

So at the start of this thread I saw this, and thought, this will be interesting.

[OldSchoolEuph]

And since this forum is having another of its nothing-works days and no-longer allows more than one image embed per post, here separately is a very rare Martin Parlor Eb, very likely made by Henry Distin, and made co-incident with both Distin and financial backer August Pollmann leaving the Martin Brothers, who failed 7 years later.

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Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com

2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20

[giakara]

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

[OldSchoolEuph]

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]

Aside from the physical compactness, is there not a defined category of brass instruments aptly named, "Parlor Horns" ? Somewhat applied to instruments that are not played LOUDLY.
A sub-set of "Chamber Instruments"?

I know (from experience) there is a category of acoustic guitars, known as "Parlor Guitars". They have smaller bodies than what most consider "standard".
The Martin Co. (world-famous guitar manufacturer in Nazareth, Pennsylvania ... totally unrelated to the Martin brass instrument company) may actually have (?) gestated the genre.
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Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz

[Richard III]

If you take a shepherd's crook cornet, with a super small bore, AKA something like my Conn "The Wonder," you have a cornet that can play super softly. Yet is has a beautiful, full sound. Contrast this with playing a regular cornet softly, playing the Wonder is like playing a regular cornet at normal dynamics. I think the key to all of this is the bore size. I can't find the source, but I seem to remember it being in the .413 range. Couple it with a period, very deep mouthpiece and it would seem to be appropriate playing in a parlor.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[OldSchoolEuph]