Short and a Long cornet mpc. lengths?

kehaulani

Does anyone know the difference between a Short and a Long cornet mouthpiece stem? Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

TKSop · Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 3:50 pm Post subject:

Cup depth, throat size, backbore.

Overall length is just another factor in balancing out the intonation.

Let's say you have a design with compressed octaves (sharp low register, flat high register) - shortening the length will counteract this, if done the right amount.

So for example...
If you take a normal piece and drill the throat out, you'll get a long throat which will compress octaves - so you'd have to do something to fix it, like running in the backbore tool further, or shortening the shank (and then turning down the shank to fix insertion depth/gap)... Which is basically what Monette does, among others.

If you take, for example, a Denis Wick cornet piece - the cup being so very deep will generally compress octaves (compared with a piece with the sort of cup your typical trumpet piece would have)... The throat is also pretty big and long... So to counteract this, the shank is short.

You could, in theory, put in a bigger backbore for the same effect, but there's a limit to quite how big a backbore can be - once the backbore needs to be so big it won't fit within the shank, it's not an option.

Every mouthpiece is a balancing act to make something that will work for the intended use.

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 7:32 pm Post subject:

I should have asked more specifically, sorry. I just got a Benge L.A. Long Cornet. (I think about 1972.) I notice Yamaha offers both Short Shank and Long Shank mouthpieces. I think all other parameters in the mouthpieces are the same. Would one be more appropriate than the other to use? Thanks.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 684

Duplicate
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11e short shank mouthpiece

stuartissimo · Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:15 pm Post subject:

When I read your post, this article came to mind. Not sure if it’s helpful for your question though.

Have you tried asking Yamaha themselves?
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mouthpieces

Richard III · Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 6:33 am Post subject:

Modern american made long cornet. Every cornet I've had that fits that description worked with a long shank cornet mouthpiece.

Assuming that you have the cornet in hand and a plethora of mouthpieces, why would you ask?

Or another way to approach this question is by looking for Benge cornet mouthpieces. Right?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125750959062?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=125750959062&targetid=1531876740158&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9033353&poi=&campaignid=20385089669&mkgroupid=151067932066&rlsatarget=pla-1531876740158&abcId=9316496&merchantid=6296724&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw5cOwBhCiARIsAJ5njuZKrb6Z-aoczR6I7qYIL6_b3zLD1QgRKFGEty3SJftDjsVUnSkkHEQaAvyeEALw_wcB
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

TKSop · Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:38 am Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 8:26 am Post subject:

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 684

Delete
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11e short shank mouthpiece

iiipopes · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 555

OK, to specifically answer the OP's question: since the late '50's, when Conn and King discontinued their proprietary shank length and taper, and since the mid '60's when Olds also discontinued their proprietary shank length and taper, for American cornets almost everybody, both corporate and boutique, use the Bach standard for shank length, taper, and tip diameter for "long shank" cornet mouthpieces.

Everything else, including rims, bowl geometry, throat drill, backbore profile, etc. is up to the individual manufacturer.

For "short shank" cornet mouthpieces, including Wick, Yamaha, etc., there does not seem to be a standard. My Yammy short shank mouthpieces are narrower at the tip than Bach Standard, and my Wick cornet mouthpieces are @5 thou larger at the tip than Bach standard, although they seem to have the same or similar shank taper.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

jondrowjf@gmail.com · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jul 2016 Posts: 684

Deleted
_________________
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook
King 603 cornet
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold short shank mouthpiece
Getzen 4 B short shank mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e short shank mouthpiece
Yamaha 11e short shank mouthpiece

Dale Proctor · Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2024 2:58 pm Post subject:

Modern short shank mouthpieces are typically “brass band” style with extremely deep cups and very large throats. Those traits will cause a cornet to play a little flat, so shortening the mouthpiece compensates for that and allows the tuning slide to remain at its “normal” position.
_________________
"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham