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steve0930
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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 192
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 Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 1:18 am Post subject: The Tongue |
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Hello Trumpet players.
I was watching a Master class from Adam Rapa and he was talking about Tongue and Pitch.. syllables etc (don 't worry not going there ) he also talked about Air direction and mentioned Pivot and Lower lip as main facilitators of this. This got me thinking.
Background
As a BE Fan I like intuitive learning. Syllables - an analytical approach to tongue position had not worked for me.
I remember Mr Smiley once writing on this Forum "I feel sorry for players who have not discovered tongue Arch" The best position for the Tongue was something that nagged away at me.
I remember Vizzutti saying "The Tongue is always anchored behind the lower teeth" But other Players saying things like "I have no idea what my Tongue is doing-.. I don't even think about it."
All a bit confusing.
New Thinking from an old Thread
I found a 12 year old TH 5 page thread which went down the rabbit hole of pitch etc. One sentence jumped out at me
"You will learn more from the Tongue than you will ever teach it"
Then it hit me - it was so obvious why didn't I get it Years ago? There doesn't have to be an Analytical "This is where you place the Tongue" rather let the Tongue teach you. Let it jump all over the place. Be surprised by its antics at times. In my head I now see it as following a Dolphin at play. I, as an Observer, am now acutely aware of the Tongue. Much more so than before (Inner Game of Tennis fans will get this) letting it roam unfettered.
The idea also occurs to me that by letting your Tongue make the mouth more of a Playground we are not so much locking down the Embouchure into a articular set up. The myriad curls and sweeps of the Tongue engaging different muscles / alignments and keeping the set up more fresh. The Brain - with the Tongue as its Emissary - senses which parts of the Embouchure needs help at any particular time/pitch.
Cheers for now, apologies if some of the language a touch fanciful! Steve
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abontrumpet
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Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 6:21 am Post subject: Re: The Tongue |
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| steve0930 wrote: | an analytical approach to tongue position had not worked for me.
. . . rather let the Tongue teach you. Let it jump all over the place. Be surprised by its antics at times.
The idea also occurs to me that by letting your Tongue make the mouth more of a Playground |
Nice/thoughtful post and a good jumping off point for discussion. Below are some initial thoughts that aren't directed at you, but towards the reader. They aren't fully fleshed, but thought I'd write!
I agree with your "playground" approach. It is much more productive to be in a state of "play" when approaching trumpet than it is to be constantly in a state of analysis. That being said, you can be analytical, but many don't understand how to be productively analytical on the trumpet.
The general mantra when applying analysis to the physicality of playing trumpet is: "sensation is always changing and unreliable." As such, when we are analyzing and experimenting with a physical aspect we need to always ask: how easy did that make things and what was the sound I was producing. It is those two questions that help you create positive change in your playing. If you experiment and all of a sudden things are easy and sound amazing, then it is your goal to remember the "ease and amazing sound" rather than forever chase the physical sensation/change that you made. If you are able to recreate it with the physical cue, it is your goal to quickly assimilate that cue into an aural cue (storing that information in sound rather than physical sensation) as the sensation will soon become unreliable (as it becomes the new normal). It is like you said "let the [experiment] teach you."
In summary, when we are self-learning, it is all about chasing those moments where we suddenly play and feel "unlimited." Sometimes you can groove/solidify that moment with a physical cue, but more often than not, you must chase the knowledge that you CAN play like a pro because you achieved it on one afternoon a few months ago. If you are constantly recreating yesterday, you are standing still. |
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3404
Location: Garland, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 7:03 am Post subject: Re: The Tongue |
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| steve0930 wrote: | | I remember Mr Smiley once writing on this Forum "I feel sorry for players who have not discovered tongue Arch" |
I've posted a lot over the past couple of decades, but I don't remember ever saying that. And it doesn't sound like something I would say. Can you provide a link for context?
I also think that giving the tongue the freedom to do whatever it wants to do is fine if you are making progress. But at some point in development, a certain number of players require a more disciplined approach, because the tongue position is not ideal (based on the results). And finding that balance is what I advocate.
Jeff |
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steve0930
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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2024 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Abontrumpet and Jeff
I remember flying an old stunt kite with my Dad - sometimes it just hit the ground at the off - like my Post!
Jeff - I did spend 10 minutes looking but couldn't find the thread - I did find another one when you wrote about waking up the lips and that was the point of my Post - that I realized I can wake up the tongue more (let if fly like one of those stunt kites!) The TOL exercises in BE as well as all the "zips and snaps" that i think it was Bert who said "would take paint off the wall" also of course waken up the Tongue.
Abontrumpet - your input was great - at least for me if no one else - I totally get your idea about the benefit of the Oral versus Physical cue. I enjoy reading your Posts. Thanks for taking the time and the power of your ideas - I will remember this one - " you must chase the knowledge that you CAN play like a pro because you achieved it on one afternoon a few months ago. If you are constantly recreating yesterday, you are standing still."
Best wishes Steve
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