Sticky valve issues

[Blackquill]

Hi guys,

My 3rd valve is really stained... I'm not 100% sure on the cause of the current stain, but many years ago I mixed blue juice with al cass valve oil on my valves, which stained them, though I got my trumpet chemically cleaned which removed "most" of the stains. The 3rd valve was stained the worst at the time, so even after the cleaning, the 3rd valve remained noticeably stained.

Since then, I've used the same valve oil (Al Cass) the whole time, but I do wonder if the valve has gotten more stained since then... I can't say for sure. Anyway, I apply oil over the entire valve almost every day and it still has a tendency to stick. Clarke exercises are a pain with this trumpet. Additionally, I accidentally dinged my 3rd valve casing about a year ago and it caused my 3rd valve to be unusable (it would just get stuck). I brought it in to my local instrument repair shop and they fixed it (supposedly).

Anyway, it's troubling. I'm not sure how I'll be able to do an upcoming set of gigs (where I'm playing a bunch of low 3rd trumpet parts) when my valve is sticking half the time.

I did a little scientific test to observe how good my valves and valve casings were. My 1st and 2nd valves work great all the time. So I swapped my valves around to see how well they do when I set the valve on the top opening of the valve case opening and let gravity pull the valve down into the valve casing.

1) As you might expect, gravity struggles to pull the 3rd valve down in the 3rd valve casing (kinda gets stuck, but in most cases it will eventually get all the way down).
2) I did the same thing with the 3rd valve in the 1st and 2nd valve casings. It struggled a little bit to get all the way down, but it did better than when it was in the 3rd valve casing.
3) I tried putting valves 1 and 2 into the valve 3 casing. They struggled a bit to get down, but not as much as when valve 3 is in there.
4) Gravity smoothly pulls valves 1 and 2 down in their respective valve cases.

So between all these things I'm aware of, I'm pretty confident that both the 3rd valve and the 3rd valve casings are having issues.

What's the best course to take? I'm not sure what I should take care of first, the valve or the casing? Should I just get a new 3rd valve or do you think they can remove the stains?

Thanks.
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Trumpet is for extroverts only... no, wait... Trumpet is also for introverts who need an avenue for extrovertism!

[Andy Del]

Clearly, the damage done to your valve and casing were not properly fixed. Take / send it to a GOOD repairer and then enjoy trouble free valves.

THEY will tell you what needs to be repaired and in what order.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[JayKosta]

Sticking can be due to the valve oil being too thin to stay on the piston and casing surfaces - that leaves a dry spot where direct metal-on-metal happens and the valve sticks. Al Cass is good, but can be too thin for some instruments.

Get some drug store Mineral Oil (not Baby Oil), it is clear and unscented).
Use finger tip to apply the Mineral Oil to the piston - it is a heavy oil and valve action will be slow - THEN drop-by-drop add Cass to the piston until acceptable valve action is obtained.

There are several heavy valve oils available, but I've had good results with plain mineral oil - easily available, cheap, and works.

I wouldn't worry about the 'staining' right now (and don't do any cleaning with abrasives) - try heavier oil first.
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'.

[shofarguy]

Al Cass Fast. I tried one bottle back in the middle 2000s. I had a mid 70s Benge with white Delrin valve guides (at the time). By the time the bottle was gone, the guides were stained brown.

Soon after that, I was introduced to Kanstul Musical Instruments. Famously, Zig Kanstul was known to tell his customers to use any valve oil they chose on his horns, except Al Cass.

Said oil evaporates very quickly, at least in the Southwest, and leaves behind whatever sediment is in the formula. Apparently, it builds up on the surface of the instrument.

I found that soaking my horn's pistons in white vinegar for 30 minutes stripped off whatever build up was on them. Swabbing the casing bores several times with vinegar seemed to remove it from those, as well.

What cleaning cannot do is repair worn valves. Your instrument's valves may need to be refitted, as mine did.
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Brian A. Douglas

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