Dunning-Kruger Effect

[jhatpro]

Do you think trumpet players are more likely than most people to exhibit evidence of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the tendency to over-estimate or, conversely, under-estimate their ability? If so, which?
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[loudog]

No, this is squarely on conductors and saxophonists.

Some trumpet players are definitely afflicted, but in my experience most trumpet players are pretty good folk... the creeps have sorta been filtered out these days it seems like!
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Dr. Louie Eckhardt, trumpeter
http://www.LouieEckhardt.com
Associate Professor of Music
Hastings College

[Shaft]

Reminds me of a youtube channel with the handle mindshock who moderates/ analyzes debates and includes a fallacy counter.

[Richard III]

[kehaulani]

In my experience, trumpet players I have come into contact with are pretty aware of just what they can and cannot do.

One exception comes to mind and that was a professional player who name-dropped and talked a good story but couldn't live up to his own expectations.

I've known some real a@@****s but they could put their horn where their money was. And I've known humble folks who would surprise you once they played. But in no case did they over/underestimate themselves.

Sometimes someone will come on strong and give you the impression that they think they're better than they really are but deep down, they know where they really stand.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn

[Shaft]

Can’t say trumpeters edge out people in other areas of music or life. In trucking we call them supertruckers. When they fail people get hurt. Medicine has the Dr. = GOD issue to deal with on occasion. Etc. etc.

The really sad side effects in music that I have seen are that the listeners suffer, the ensemble suffers and so does the individual and their own reputation when they stomp all over the music and everyone else’s musicality.

Humble vs low self esteem - low self esteem is unfortunate because they dampen their own light without taking a chance. I actually have seen more of that than the arrogant and talentless suffering from this “label/ syndrome”.

The highly qualified donkey is just its own thing other musicians are made to endure. If they are actually qualified then that negates the psychological label describing the overinflated fantasy image of competence.

[dstpt]

I've heard this term used to describe a trumpet builder or two...or three.

[jhatpro]

I’ve played in a lot of bands and run into very few players who could honestly check all the boxes: tone, technique, improv chops, and range. Some fell short in every area but the most frequent candidates for Dunning-Ruger status have been players with range to burn but limitations elsewhere, especially in improv ability.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[dstpt]

[stuartissimo]

[Shaft]

Yeah man. Having a fallacy count on all modern discussions would truly shape modern discourse. It slices through through the egos. I’m glad this topic was broight up. “Inferiority complex” and other aspects of psychology play a big role in human interactions.

Recently someone who seemed to have a “strong sense of self” admitted behind closed doors to being uncomfortable in their own skin and having lost their identity. (Not a musician) It blew my mind. It would have altered the approach in our own interpersonal dynamic had that been known. After months of self reflection also admitted to lying to themself and those around them. Actually showing a great deal of shadow-work in their impressive healing process post traumas.

The face people put on is not always true to self and it does affect things for better or worse. Good intentions or intentional overhyping aside, we all need grace and have struggles that many will never know of.

Anymore I just play with people I get along with or as of late learning about the home studio aspect of things to make music and incorporate new sounds.

[cbtj51]

[Oncewasaplayer]

I constantly overestimate my abilities and have had some humbling moments. We need to challenge ourselves in order to see improvement. And when things fall apart, often in embarrassing ways, those are simply reminders to head back to the shed. I no longer beat myself up for those failures. All part of the journey.
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Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet

[Man Of Constant Sorrow]