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Kaelos Regular Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2021 Posts: 18
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:07 pm Post subject: Looking for a horn similar to a Yamaha Miyashiro |
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Looking to find a similar horn to my Yamaha Miyashiro, but with a bit more resistance in the leadpipe. I love the ultra-lightweight construction and the extra large bell but the reverse leadpipe isn't quite doing it for me. I was thinking something like a Flip Oakes Wild Thing would maybe do the trick, but I wanted some more opinions.[/code] |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 721 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Ever think of using a little tighter backbore or smaller orifice on your mouthpiece? _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Kaelos Regular Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2021 Posts: 18
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | Ever think of using a little tighter backbore or smaller orifice on your mouthpiece? |
I've tried quite a few but haven't found much success unfortunately |
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Divitt Trumpets Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2015 Posts: 526 Location: Toronto
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Kaelos Regular Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2021 Posts: 18
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Divitt Trumpets wrote: | Have a repair tech flip the top leg of the tuning slide and put the brace forward if you think it's specifically the reverse slide that you don't like. |
I've considered that, or possibly swapping it for a Bergeron leadpipe, but I'm worried about that making the horn worth a lot less, especially if I don't end up liking the leadpipe swap for whatever reason |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2474
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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This will sound crazy, but hear me out. This trick has been used by many - including Vincent Bach and Larry Ramirez.
To add resistance, add turbulence in a position that will allow stabilization ahead of the tuning slide break and bend. To do this, insert a small tube stub into the leadpipe about 3" back from the end (so still within the cylindrical portion). Before actually installing brass, you can mock this up with a thin o-ring. The effect will be a little more pronounced, as an o-ring will still be more disruptive than the thin wall of a brass sleeve, but you can see if you like it. This can always be reversed for resale by the same skilled tech that you will want to do it in the first place.
You will want to carefully check intonation. Every horn is a little different and tinkering anywhere in this zone can throw that off. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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Kaelos Regular Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2021 Posts: 18
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you, I'll give this a try! |
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ldwoods Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 1861 Location: Lake Charles, LA
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Confused by your statements. 1) you want more resistance, 2) then you write "thinking something like a Flip Oakes Wild Thing would maybe do the trick".
That strikes me as contradictory. I have a Wild Thing, which is quite free blowing, even with the smaller tuning slide installed. I also have a Schilke B6, which I would think\assume plays something like your Yammie (lighter and brighter than your average trumpet). _________________ Larry Woods
LDWoods |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Have you played a Yamaha Bobby Shew? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Kaelos Regular Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2021 Posts: 18
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | Have you played a Yamaha Bobby Shew? |
I have, it felt a little too stuffy for me. That was quite a while ago though so I might give it another shot. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9144 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Kaelos wrote: | kehaulani wrote: | Have you played a Yamaha Bobby Shew? |
I have, it felt a little too stuffy for me. That was quite a while ago though so I might give it another shot. |
I understand that the Gen II horn plays a little more open than the original. I'll add that many players must take a little time before they're comfortable with a step bore. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 911 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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If you're looking for a new horn, Kehaulani's suggestion of the 8310Z is the closest you will get to an answer for a more resistant version of the Miyashiro. They have a ton of features in common.
I'd suggest experimenting more with mouthpiece. For the price of a new horn, you can get a ton of mouthpieces to tinker with. I recently got a used Miyashiro after years of playing the Shew. Fortunately I'm playing AR Resonance mouthpiece tops and backbores and have 3 different backbores: small, medium, and large. I was using a medium backbore on the Shew and switching to the Small backbore on the Miyashiro felt more dialed in for me. I kept the same top so it didn't change the feel on my face. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2117 Location: Germany
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I’d try Ewan Divitts suggestion, just for the heck of it.
On the other hand, it seems we’re only discussing new horns here. How about vintage? My 6B could be along the lines of what you are looking for - it’s an open horn but on going higher some resistance seems to kick in which helps me with the upper register. So, what if you combine that with a little tighter mouthpiece? _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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a.kemp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 681 Location: NYC
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Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:02 am Post subject: |
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How about the new EM, the 8330EM?
Supposed to be a little more to blow against vs the original model. |
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matthes93401 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 644
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Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Divitt Trumpets wrote: | Have a repair tech flip the top leg of the tuning slide and put the brace forward if you think it's specifically the reverse slide that you don't like. |
I’m curious about this. Are there any pictures of this? I didn’t realize there was any taper to the tuning slide, otherwise, what does flipping the top leg accomplish? Not disputing, just want to learn about it. Thanks! |
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Goby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2017 Posts: 655
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Looking for a horn similar to a Yamaha Miyashiro |
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Kaelos wrote: | Looking to find a similar horn to my Yamaha Miyashiro, but with a bit more resistance in the leadpipe. I love the ultra-lightweight construction and the extra large bell but the reverse leadpipe isn't quite doing it for me. I was thinking something like a Flip Oakes Wild Thing would maybe do the trick, but I wanted some more opinions.[/code] |
There's a saying, "don't spend good money after bad", that is worth considering. Your horn is only original once, and once you take a torch to it, it takes a lot of time and money to make it look like it did when it left the Yamaha factory. The Yamaha Miyashiro is a rare and sought-after model, and is much more valuable in original condition than modified. There is no guarantee that any modification will improve the horn, and it is much more likely that it will make the horn worse and greatly reduce its value on the secondary market. Yamaha is incredibly thorough with their prototyping, testing variables down to the weight of the waterkey on artist models. I would be surprised if you could assemble a better instrument than what Eric Miyashiro and Yamaha's professional engineering team settled on when they released that horn.
Your original post doesn't provide any measure of what you would like to achieve by modifying your horn, only that you would like to feel different while playing. I don't see any mention of wanting better range, endurance, a different tone, cleaner articulations, or changes in intonation. Your feelings about your trumpet do not exist to the audience, all they hear is what comes out of the bell. If you are having a playing issue, addressing your equipment is a valuable step in improving your performance, but if all you want to change is your perception, then you will never be satisfied. |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 916
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:52 am Post subject: |
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What about a Schilke B7? Medium bore with a large bell and Schilke quality. Comparing a Yamaha Miyashiro and a Wild Thing is like comparing a Ferrari and a freight train. |
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