Quitting band my senior year?

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

The above post from Billy B is an excellent one, IMO.

My goodness have things ever CHANGED since I was in high school band!

Always remember there are at least TWO sides to every story...

My father was a high school band director in public school for 33 years. It was NEVER back then like it is described herein. BUT, I know times have surely changed...and it would appear that a ton of CRAP has entered the picture in the last 35 years or so...

I loved high school band - wouldn't have ever thought about quitting - too much fun - I also loved marching band as well as anything else we did. It was a great time. Many unforgettable memories...it was wonderful. Loved the playing, had many good friends, loved the girls, got myself a beautiful head majorette who has been my wife for 31 years...

The situation you describe is as different as night and day from my experiences. What can I say? But, Billy B makes a lot of sense to me...

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2004-03-23 09:45 ]

AverageJoe · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:33 am Post subject:

Everyone --

Story A (Ben)<---------------------TRUTH----------------------->Story B (Band Director)

Since we don't know both sides of the story, we probably won't be able to extract the truth.

Ben --

You made a personal choice, but you did ask the people here for advice. Pick your battles wisely! If you decide with a clear conscience, then OK, what more needs to be said, right? If your conscience isn't at peace, then I encourage you to go talk to your band director in private. Now that you have cooled off a bit, you can discuss your issues with a level head. If you come to an agreement with your director, then you may not have to leave band. If you cannot come to peace with him, then you can rest easy in your decision to leave.

In fact, I'll be a little bit bold here, if you haven't discussed the issue with your director, regardless of your conscience right now, I would do that -- not that he necessarily "deserves" it, but it would show great depth of character on your part to seek resolution with the person who offended you.

Good Luck --

Paul Poovey

Pops · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:31 am Post subject:

I quit band my senior year in H.S.

The director was crazy. Some of them are.

AS long as you practice and work on your playing it won't matter at all.

Yes my HS teacher told me I wouldn't get in a college program (He was wrong)

Sometimes talking to the school board doesn't help.

My daughter is quitting band next year.

They never play during the Fall. 35 hours a week outside and most without the horns out there. (Yes they break UIL rules. The band does the max allowed afterschool and then each instrument group does their own afterschool practice as a seperate unit.)The love of music is beaten out of them.

The HS here HAD over 300 kids in band before we got this new director. This year it had
140 but 80 were freshmen who didn't have this director last year.

Next year should be smaller still. School has 4,000 students.

Nobody sees a problem with this.

_________________
Come see the books everyone talks about; "30 Minutes to Better Trumpet Playing", "How the Chops Work". Plus my other 8 books at http://www.bbtrumpet.com

Pops

It is the Smart application of hard work that gets you there.

[ This Message was edited by: Pops on 2004-03-23 13:34 ]

mheffernen5 · Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:04 pm Post subject:

Hello...I would say definately if I were in your shoes I would quit too. Our band director at my catholic high school says we have to study with her or we have to study privately. I am actually a junior. I had a teacher who I didn't really like but I made it through and it was my 5th grade teacher.

Try to stick out the rest of the year

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

I agree that band directors probably are under a lot of pressure and I might almost agree with what Billy said about it being Ben's and the other students' faults. But there are just a couple major things which show to me that the band director does in fact have a problem and is a bastard.

1) He fails people for one single reason, which is dumb. I can see maybe getting a B or maybe a C for no lessons (if in fact that is part of the required program), but an F is ridiculous. I can just imagine him with a big smile on his face giving those F's just to show he actually does have some power in the world and that he's NOT a total failure and sucks at life.

2)This one is a biggie. He excludes a poor student simply because he is poor. If somebody can't afford lessons, then they can't. It's not the kid's fault (especially if they are kids, I can see it being an adult's fault for not working enough or whatever, but he is just a kid). I myself am not very well off and it pisses me off to no end when people exclude somebody for the simple fact that they are poor.

You better have read this post carefully, because everything in it is right and if you disagree, you are wrong.

(sorry for the rant, but this guy sounds like a total bastard)
Disclaimer: All of the above applies unless Ben suddenly comes and says that he was lying about something, which I don't think is going to happen.

ben folds · Regular Member Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 26

I don't quite understand why so many people think I'm lying or something all of a sudden. Nowhere have I added in anything to make my director look worse, or overexaggerated anything. Yes, I did ask for advice, but I did not ask for someone with very little to add to troll my thread and tell me to stop whining, and that it was all my fault. I have not talked to my old teacher since he stopped showing up, but all I can guess is that his schedule became too conflicting, or he moved, and neglected to contact me. When I say talking to the school counselor only made things worse, this is what I mean: myself and about 10 other band students all went to talk to her one day, to let her know about all of the things our band director was doing, and see if there was any way she could help us. She took all of the info we gave her, turned it into a "constructive criticism" list (i.e. we'd share a story about how our director would be too vague about something, and then yell out us when we didn't understand, and she'd write "please be more clear and concise about instructions" or something similar). She gave the list to him, and rather than taking it as constructive criticism, he merely used every point sarcastically ("Your articulations aren't matching here. Matching means playing the same thing. Is that clear enough for you?!"), completely defeating the purpose. So that's how it only made things worse. Anyone who thinks I'm lying is more than welcome to contact me in private, and I'll give you the email addresses of any number of students in my school band who will tell you all the exact same stories.

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

I wasn't saying you were lying, all I put that there for was to keep myself from looking like a total idiot if any of the information you gave turned out to be false. My post was arrogant enough as it was (I admit it, but that guy totally sounds like a bastard) even if everything I said was true.

ben folds · Regular Member Joined: 23 Sep 2003 Posts: 26

I wasn't really calling you out. I was just talking about all the people who seem to refuse to believe I'm being honest.

NELATrpt · Regular Member Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 85

Ben, I've read your post and you have my sympathy. First, the required private teacher thing sounds ridiculous, particularly if you are in a public school. In the state where I live, whatever instruction is required by the director must be provided by the public school. He can suggest, but can't require it and certainly can't base your grade on it.

I also agree with Pops. Some directors are crazy, a well as an administrator who would require a director to win a competition to keep his/her job. (I would advise that director to look for employment elsewhere)

My last two years in high school weren't a picnic either (78-79). We got a new director, he decided to put his stamp on us as section leaders. I had a private teacher that this new guy seemed to be at odds with on everything that I was being taught privately. My private teacher was a trumpet player/my new band director was a saxaphone player. Who do you think I listened to? Now, here is where it gets similiar to your situation. He told me if I didn't conform to what he wanted, he couldn't give me an A. As a result, I made quite a few B's my senior year in band. Thank goodness it wasn't F's, or I might have considered quitting also. I stayed in band because I loved to play, enjoyed the company of my friends, and I knew once I got to college I'd have to conform to a set of standards I might not agree with totally anyway so it was good practice. Hang in if you can, if you can't, find a good private teacher, and play in as many extracurricular groups that you can. Good Luck!

PS. My old director drives a bread truck now. Maybe we're both better off?!

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

NELAT, isn't the point of a director to make sure everyone conforms to the same standards and plays together?

Dimoak · Regular Member Joined: 06 Mar 2004 Posts: 53

Not only that, but I think a band director's job more importantly is to teach good musicianship to his or her students while at the same time making sure the students are having as much fun as possible. I mean, the vast majority of band directors probably aren't private instructor-calibur experts on all instruments. For instance, they may be an excellent high brass player, low brass player, woodwind player, or percussionist; but rarely do they master all or most of these fields. That's why most schools also hire supplemental instructors, experts (or as close as possible to it) at things such as Trumpet, Tuba, Percussion, various Woodwinds, various types of high and low brass, etc. to individually work with sections on their playing ability. I believe the expertise and job of the director lies in tying all these different sections together in a band, and teaching them how to perform together AND by themselves or in smaller groups. The students should be having as much fun as possible within reasonable limits (as others mentioned, they should recommend supplemental private lessons, but they can't require it unless it's formally integrated into the band curriculum, which is what most programs do). My current band director here in college, I'm glad to say, is excellent at this.

But anyway, just my two cents, I think you need to just try and come to a concensus with your director. I doubt he or the rest of the band really want to lose you that much. If you really enjoy band and you want to stay, just try and work a little harder to coming to a resolution. Good luck!

trumpetdad · Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject:

benfolds,
I've been following your thread with some interest as my own kids have had both good and bad band experiences in high school (and college!). The one thing I've noticed is there is no mention of your parents entering into this equation. There are recourses available to parents which are not availible to students: meetings with principals, school board members. even guidance counselors and teachers are much more effective on the high school level when parents are involved. As for being forced to take private lessons, that kind of decision would have to be school district policy, unless you are attending a private school. If you received an "F" solely on the basis of not having a private teacher, that is a matter that I'm sure your parents can challenge. But, you must get your parents involved!!!
Decisions you make now can have a bearing on the rest of your education, if not the rest of your life. Do not let a bad band director discourage your participation in band, it's the music that counts!!! Get your parents involved with the band director, guidance counselor, principal, superintendent, school board - Yes, parents are a great and often overlooked resource who will go to bat for you. However, don't send them off on a fool's errand if a large part of the conflict with the band director is coming from you. In any case, get your parents involved to settle this matter, hopefully without you having to give up band.
Best of Luck!!!

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

ben folds,

Take heed and pay attention to the above post...it should have been mentioned much sooner...

Get your parents involved! It is proper respect, and they can accomplish far more in the way of bringing an appropriate solution that you can on your own. They have an interest in the outcome, and will be able to help you make the right decision and achieve the best answer.

Do it now!

harry-pedler · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:54 am Post subject:

BMH · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:13 am Post subject:

I'm surprised to see that more people haven't directly addressed the original question you asked, which is: how will not doing band affect your chances of getting into a music program in college? So, as a college trumpet professor, here is my take on that:

1) If you are planning to major in music, you will almost certainly have auditions as a part of your admissions process. In these cases you're not talking about just getting into a school, you're talking about getting a specific teacher to agree to work with you for the next four years. These decisions generally come down to three things: how you play your audition; the quality of your established relationship with a particular trumpet professor; and how your materials (rec letters and transcripts) look. Franky, if I have a prospective student who plays well and has made an effort to get to know me (having a few lessons, visiting my campus, emailing me, etc.), then I'm going to draw my own conclusions. I'm interested in things like: whether this person is receptive to my suggestions; whether s/he has major playing issues that we will have to work through; and whether this person would make a positive contribution to the environment at my school; etc. So I'll make some educated guesses based on personal experience, and THEN I'll dig into transcripts and rec letters. If there's a big question (like an F in band), then I might make some phone calls to try to get to the bottom of it. But ultimately you're not talking about a nameless admissions officer; you're talking about a specific teacher who is trying to form an opinion about you. So the important thing is: meet the trumpet profs at the schools you're considering and be professional in those relationships. Answer communications on time. Accept constructive criticism with an open mind and then try to implement any suggestions. Work hard and practice your butt off for your auditions, because you have to sound great, no matter what. Those things will count for more than whether you are in band.

2) Along those lines, be very respectful of Mr. Wing, with whom you've mentioned that you are about to start studying. He's obviously willing to make an investment in you, which is great. But you have to realize that this IS an investment, for him. Sure, you're probably paying him. But so is Morehead State. I guarantee you that his schedule is crowded and busy and he probably doesn't need your check nearly as much as he needs the hour that he is giving up to teach your lesson. So if he assigns something, do it. Follow his instructions to the letter. If you can't make it to a lesson, give him as much advance notice as possible. If you don't have time to practice for a lesson, be honest about that fact. And above all, remember that college trumpet professors run college trumpet studios. Which means that if Morehead State isn't on your list of potential colleges, you need to let him know about that BEFORE he spends several months working with you. It isn't fair to ask him to help you prepare for auditions at other universities unless he knows up front that that's your intention.

3) If you aren't trying to major in music (i.e. you just want to do college concert band or even marching band--yes, I know, unlikely that you'll want to march), then you probably don't need to worry about any of this. Just get rid of the F on your transcript!

4) Finally I would add that YOU are primarily responsible for your progress on the trumpet--this goes for all of us. Given the value of private lessons (especially for someone who has only been playing a short time and is considering music in college), I am surprised that you didn't simply decide to go and seek out a new private instructor when your first one stopped showing up. Who cares if it's a requirement? The potential value to you is a lot more than your grade in band. There are multiple reasons why you might not have done so last year, but if the only thing that you gain from this experience is the conviction that you will need to take ultimate ownership for your progress on the horn, then that is a lesson worth learning.

Good luck!

harry-pedler · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:29 am Post subject:

BMH - That is good advice, but you do realize that the thread is 12 years old?

If the OP was a 16 yo when he posted this, he would be a 28 yo today

!

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

zackh411 · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:32 am Post subject:

Dammit... Really?
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jungledoc · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:08 am Post subject:

harry-pedler · Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:15 am Post subject:

Is this the same person?

http://www.bso.org/brands/pops/features/2017-spring-pops/ben-folds.aspx?utm_source=norbella&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=benfoldsspringpops0517