Aperture concern

cperret · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject:

To Jeff and fellow Balanced Embouchure seekers,

I'd like some feedback on a concern I have. My story so far (in short): Last Sept I set out to change (fix) my embouchure and ended up flailing aimlessly for months before I started making progress. I've had a few detours. The latest, and perhaps most frustrating so far, was realizing my 'new embouchure's aperture was too high up on my top teeth. When I tried to play high, or applied too much pressure, the air stream would be blocked and the sound would stop. After much frustration I think I've made some progress, but it still feels akward, sounds less full with more effort, and requires constant concentration even after almost a month.

My concern is whether I'll have trouble in the future trying to bring my 'rolled in' embouchure down so the aperture is aligned between my teeth. I realize that the tongue-on-lips ex's are supposed to help, but sometimes I feel like I'm not able to bring my embouchure down enough without weird things happening (ie sound starts fluttering, chokes up, stops.) Also, as you can imagine, I'm wary of getting into the same problem again.

Has anyone had similar problems/concerns, and does anyone have any suggestions/solutions?

Look forward to your responses.

P.S. Not to spin this thread off track, but I'd just like to point out that the BE forum is the fastest growing in the 'methods' forum. I think that says a lot of Jeff's revolutionary approach. Keep up the good fight!

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 5:56 pm Post subject:

Sounds to me like you're trying to adopt a particular embouchure (roll in) rather than do the BE excercises (rolled in and rolled out) and let your embouchure migrate naturally to a point where it's more in balance. Where was your embouchure when you started? Have you gone from one extreme to another? Remember, BE is not a particular embouchure, but a method to help you find the right balance for your particular mouth, muscles and horn.

Maybe I'm reading too much into your post, but I'm suspicious that you've adopted an embouchure concept that doesn't work.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

cperret · Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject:

Dave, et al,

I'm sorry. In trying to be brief (though I didn't really succeed,) I left out parts of the story. I went through highschool, a B. Music in Jazz Performance (full scholarship), and a year playing lead trumpet on Carnival Cruises playing on a terribly inefficient embouchure. My jaw was receded, my big top lip way over my puckered out bottom lip. My stamina and power was below average, and my range was, on good nights, a Bb or B above the staff. (How'd I get by for a year playing lead on cruise ships? That's another story.) Keep in mind that adds up to 11 years of trumpet lessons with teachers who couldn't (or wouldn't) help me fix my chops.

In Sept I decided I'd 'fix' my embouchure or stop playing the trumpet altogether. After months of trying to find a 'new' embouchure myself, with a few fruitless lessons, started lessons with a local trumpet teacher named Don E. Johnson. (Incidentally, I asked many local pros who they'd recommend to be 'the chop doctor', and Don's name came up every time.) Within a month of studying with Don I went from not being able to make a note (my chop experiments had really messed me up,) to making some (admittedly slow) progress. I'm constantly researching trumpet pedagogy, and a few months ago I decided to also check out the "Balanced Embouchure", as a supplement to my practice routine.

Now to your questions; My embouchure, now, looks a lot different than it used to. My jaw is out slightly so my teeth are aligned. My corners are neither smiling nor frowning, but tense. I realize there's no such thing as one specific BE embouchure, but since I have big lips (the pc term is robust embouchure, I believe,) I thought a more rolled-in setting would benefit me. I haven't tried to force this into my regular practice, mind you - I'm just practicing R.O. 1 and R.I. 1 and letting nature take it's course.

Finally, I hope I didn't cause confusing writing "My concern is whether I'll have trouble in the future trying to bring my 'rolled in' embouchure down so the aperture is aligned between my teeth." By my 'rolled in' embouchure I'm only referring to the embouchure I use to do R.I. #1. Anyway, I hope I've cleared things up here. I didn't mean to cause confusion, but I appreciate your concern, and I hope I get some more feedback regarding my original question. Thanks again.

_dcstep · Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2004 6:57 am Post subject:

Ugh! There's a lot going on here. Are the teachings of your new instructor at odds with BE? I suspect not, but if they are it could cause great confusion and frustration.

I'm reluctant to say anything specific other than continuing to do ALL the BE excercises (at least to the extent that you've progressed so far). Most of us experienced player have to do tons of experimentation with the RI excercises. Keeping experimenting with it.

For actual playing you may find that the RI needs to be less extreme. After decades of being rolled out I find tremendous benefit to a slight roll in. However, when I do the RI excercises I'm way further rolled in. Over time, I feel like my playing embouchure is rolling even further in. There's no doubt that when I play above high-C that I reset with even more roll-in. My goal is to make that transition smooth, but, for now, it's "under construction."

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

oj · Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2004 2:47 am Post subject:

cperret,

Why don't you start working on the tonguing exercises in BE?

From reading your post I get the impression that you are too concerned about "aperture" and the "aperture placement".

By moving your tongue forward and in contact with inside of both lips (called "tongue on lips"), you will find a better lip position, or better said: You will develop a more efficient setup. BE is not an analytical tool, it is a set of powerful exercises presented in a balanced "diet" (called lesson plans).

My simple advice: Start doing the tongue on lips exercises!

Ole