Chris Botti on the Leno Tonight Show

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:26 am Post subject:

Ya know, any philosophy is good if you can keep food on the table.

FIRST OF ALL, WHY DO YOU SAY CHRIS IS SELLING OUT? BECAUSE HE'S NOT PLAYING THE TYPE OF MUSIC YOU LIKE? I LIKE HIS MUSIC.

Chris is an innovator with his current act.
He recognized a market demand and is serving it. Very few trumpeters I know are doing that..on that large a scale. Spare me listing the great trumpeters you like(who arnt played on the radio every day) It's over for them.(except for nostalgia show work, of which there is a decent amount of work while the old timers are still alive)

He has:

1)brought national attention to a form of music
relagated by many to a smaller special interst market(yet big enough to make big bucks!)

2)We now have a current trumpet player receiving airplay.

How do you know he doesnt enjoy playing this type of music? I dont think its fair to say that this is selling out.

The subjective nature of musicians disturbes me(and also creates a neat business opportunity) Keep it up guys!

Yoinks · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 258

You do realize, as far as the "being to old to market" that Chris is already in his early forties right?

pfrank · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 12:57 pm Post subject:

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:15 pm Post subject:

The local smooth jazz station here in NY has ratings(an audience) that is a many times bigger than any station you may listen to(in any state in the country). Except top forty in a major metro market. They also play Miles.

BTW. I dont know who Dave Douglas is (the drummer in my band is named Dave Douglas though) and have no problem admitting that. Afficinados know the name. I don't cater to afficienados. I worry about pleasing the masses..period.

BTW. Let me correct myself. It realy doesnt matter whether I like Chris Botti or not. Millions of others do...thats what important to me. Why? Because I like to work.

pfrank · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:51 pm Post subject:

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:57 pm Post subject:

I too have followed Chris Botti's rise to fame with interest...and it would definately appear that he is being targeted as a marketable "new item" for the RECORDING INDUSTRY, who knows for certain that sexy sells...(regardless whether talent is involved or not) and as soon as The recording industry saw a nice looking young man...saw a chance to do a little marketing $$$$ploy.

His new CD which I bought on sale for $7.95 @ Fred Meyer was all together not a bad CD.

Although to my way of thinking, I was left BEGGING to hear more...Chris just seemed to be cruising and just teasing his audience with his wonderful talent, never really reaching much into his beautiful bag of tricks and licks..

but seems to be playing the whole CD almost tooooooooooo safe making sure not to offend and because of this...he seems just never to go the distance..THUS NEVER NEVER STRETCHING HIS EVELOPE OF SAFTEY

CHRIS INNOVATIVE..HUH????WHEN???? WHERE???

Seriously, I Don't doubt by his previous works, with Sting...and Brecker (Hey, Brecker is an animal and a full fisted-and superchoppin kind of high energy talent...

and Chris is truly in the same camp, but through his suga' coated smooth-sexy-jizz stuff, with shades of Alpert phrasing on his latest album (Alpert, although an amazingly successful and talented ICON, Herb just never in a millon years seemed to display the craft and talent of Chris's trumpet gift. Chris does Herb's thag' but adds sooo much more to the tone, the voicing and phrasing and he actually (unlike Herb) skillfully connects the notes and stays in pitch, works a harmon like no one sense Sweets Edison and on Chris's latest CD has one cut that is really startling and soo refreshingly glib... where his harmon sound varies and floats from note to note into out a full warm open trumpet sound and back again throughout the song???
Simply beautiful.
He must be holding the mute and releasing it ala' rubba'plunger style as his his sound drifts back and forth. (Could it be multi recording gimmic..perhaps???Anyway

THIS SHOWS CREATIVITY.. AND HE pulls off some truly wonderfully refreshing new licks...VERY TASTY....nawwww, he then for the most part..sink back into the comfortable ho- hum performance stirred on by a less that steller bunch of lack luster musicans that just don't seem to have a clue. GAD AWFUL piano player who has nooooooo clue about improv or where he wants to go. The guitar work holds things together but..just like Dave Douglas, an equally talented new innovator who over his career has played with some reeeally suspect talented folks.
(Check out Douglas's Web site and download his music clip. "PLAY IT MOMMA!" WOW!

http://www.davedouglas.com/writings.html

and if you want a sample of some really awesome new acoustical trumpet sound)

I just read an old JAZZ TIMES Oct 99 mag. article about the early days when HOLLYWOOD AND THE RECORDING COMPANY EX's jumped on the CHET BAKER BAND WAGON...
Chet as we know, in the early days was a handsome talented and beautiful young man with Hollywood charm and great looks. (Reminds me in some ways of Chris)They jumped at the chance to market this young talented Chet...and from there we all know that very very sad story and I am glad to see that Chris has the maturity and genius not to get caught completely up in his own press, although I see he now has a couple of FAN CLUBS...
and has a bevy of marketing managers hot on his trail.
Just check out the latest CD inside cover work of Chris. There he is, photographed without a shirt...looking ala' Chet Bakerish' in the same vein marketing thag'

This I find very humous...but if YA GOT IT, GANG!! SO BE AND FLAUNT IT BABY!!!

RICK BRAUN Another smoooooth jizzz artist
( another glib fully talented jazz artist that can improv. and BOP with the best) and hasn't gotten caught up too much in the SEX SELL games..
ALTHOUGH THE RECORDING EX'S did their darnest for soo many of his albums. Check the covers??? Cool GQ threads and purty ladies. BONEY JAMES AND GANG are really into the SEX-SELLS IMAGE THAG'

Great posts about Chris...I enjoy his ease of playing...but wish he would stretch the "safety net" and style n' profile a bit and all that jazz.

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2002-04-10 17:06 ]

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:13 pm Post subject:

Hey Pfrank:

Thanks for pointing out this is a friendly disagreement/discussion. I don't argue....ever.

Thats really cool your playing the Knitting Factory.. Now I know where your coming from.
For you folks who dont know, The Knitting Factory is a very well known NYC venue that showcases some of the best(and not best) original talent. When I produce my originals, I'm sure I'll be over there.

I should point out that(for the luxury of showcasing the music they believe in) bands are willing to (make an investment in themselves) play for very very low wages at this particular venue.

Hope your geting paid. I called the place and they told me I'd have to play for peanuts and I said no way. I simply cant afford to do that.

More power to you!!!!!!!

adamcz · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:47 pm Post subject:

jgadvert, why play music at all? There are so many proffessions that pay better then GB trumpet player, and many of them offer perks like retirement packages, and health insurance. I can understand playing some music that's profitable to make possible the gigs that aren't, but if your driving force isn't some sort of musical asthetic, I don't see the point. You could make a lot more money as a lawer or something. And if appealing to the masses is your primary musical goal, why not go all the way? Teenage girls in bikinis is what the public REALLY wants to "hear."

pfrank, I'm in Boston too... where do you play at? I haven't been playing around town a whole lot; mostly just playing with Berklee ensembles/sessions. This summer I want to try and find someplace to play all these compositions for septet I've been writing.

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Hello,
I don't mean to spoil anyone's party here and I am so enjoying the discussion regarding Chris B. (I am sincere about that). I too have Mr. B's latest CD (the only one I own) and do recognize his wonderful sound (I would die to have his sound) and "potential" for greater things (musically). I don't plan on buying another recording by him, however. I have a difficult time listening to his stuff for any extended time. I find myself drifting off (spaceing out, you might say) and just forgetting where things are in the music at any given time. With many of the great jazz players (you know, the usual suspects) it's really fun, interesting, and intellectually stemulating to follow the players musical thoughts via their improv. This is one of the great things about jazz music...it's so spontaneous and, yeah...the language IS sophisticated. It is NOT popular with large audiences and nar should it be. In fact, I'm happy as a clam that serious jazz (if I can use that word to describe the Kisor's, Harrell's, Payton's, etc.) is not popular with the masses. I never want to go hear these guys among 30-40,000 screaming fans (mosh pit and all) and end up watching the whole thing on a big screen TV, after paying $100+ bucks for a ticket. This would NOT be my idea of a great musical experience. I have nothing against Chris B. I wish him well and hope he does like what he's doing and has a wonderfully long productive career. As for Sting...well he doesn't play the trumpet so I have not spent any time (or money) paying attention to him. I'm just thankful for those players who are willing to take less $$ and move the music forward.
Larry Smithee

jgadvert · Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:26 pm Post subject:

Adam:

Do you mind if I discuss the business aspect of things? Does every single thought have to be devoted to love of playing(and looked at from an ideological musicians standpoint?) Its relevant to this thread regarding CB'S show structure. Questioning whether someone loves playing the trumpet isnt.

I respect your point of view. Don't label me the "business guy type" (just cause I understand it). No matter what school, concert hall or garage you play in, somone has to handle that end of things.

jakepainter · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 4:31 am Post subject:

jgadvert i completely agree with you.

IMO there are far too many musicians who don't know how to run a band and market themselves properly. These are very important skills and are nearly always overlooked.

In manchester there seem to so many players that will only play straight ahead jazz, and go on and on about "selling out" but honestly most of these guys are completely miserable because they have no work. I bet Chris Botti isn't miserable !!

I really like Courtney pine who is an example of a great jazzer playing new and inovative music accessible to the young of today. More players should follow his lead,

pfrank · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:23 am Post subject:

An entertaining thread here. Bad-Boy Don, you are VERY well informed. Adamcz, I'm not into promoting the band here (perhaps we could have a promotions area some time) but since you asked, we are playing at club "806" in Somerville (on Somerville Av, usta be called "Lillies" and "Club 3" before that) next friday night (the 19th) with Seks Bomba: so it will be a great night musically. ("Seks Bomba", not "Sex Mob", who I'd recomend to y'all, we actually opened for them the last time we played "Lillies", Mr Schwartz and his custom built slide trumpet is a real joy, pure trumpet sound, and a nice guy) BTW, we expect to make very good money at The Knitting Factory. It's in the kind of contract you make, and when you can guarante a full house, you have some wiggle room for percentage. We're playing there with "Slim Cessna's Auto Club" (What a Voice and presence that guy, Slim has) and they sold the place out last time he played there. (Slim is a Denver friend of the band now living in RI, so yes, friendships and connections are a good thing...)
Jgadvert, your phrase "THE MASSES" got me to thinking, is there a "the masses" for trumpet players? I had wondered why you chose trumpet if your first goal is to work...once upon a time trumpet was KING, people didn't have TVs and there were bands working across the land with trumpet THE leader instrument because it COULD be HEARD and cause THRILLS without sound systems. Before the trumpet was invented, the double reeds were the lead instrument; those old shawm like suckers were LOUD. They still use them that way in India and Turkey. One European instrument is called the RACKET, where we get the modern word from, "stop makin such a racket!!" Guitar took over from trumpet, and nowadays, well guitar gets competition from synthesizer, maybe, idunno, but at any rate, I think that trumpet players today must relate to a great many SMALLER MARKETS: there isn't a "THe MASSES". You can see from reading here in the TR Hearald that there sub-groups of markets trumpeters work in:
There's the Classical world and it's sub-groups, there are the serious amature, semi amature and professional players who work connected to Churches, there are teachers, there are Show band and pro studio environment players, there are G.B. players who play music that uses trumpet, perhaps funk R&B, or ballroom dance bands, like the "oldies" you mention, there are the few career jazzers and makers of original idioms, there are people who play Hip Hop Techno in the dark clubs of the coastal cities to international mixed race audiences who dance, there are Ska horn players, the swing revival band players, there are maybe pro sports and rallie pep band players here, and there are some who do it all, perhaps some I missed...
I don't make money playing the ambient D&B jazz I like to perform and record for my own enjoyment. My money making band is in the gendre of roots-retro (actually tonight I'm going to the Boston Music Awards [put on by all the major local radio stations and indistry mags] because we are nominated in the category of best Roots-Rock much to our wonderment. We play a sorta mix of Gypsy/Circus/ Klezmer/old Americanna with a certain creepy style (ok, it's called Reverend Glasseye and His Wooden Legs, I'm a leg), we have a smart and interestingly dressed tribe who goes to all our gigs, plus new folks every day, and we're doing a national tour in May-June and Europe next fall. I love playing the music, it draws on my background in classical and brass band music, dixiland, and jazz skills, I write everything I play, always just a bit more difficult than what I can do comfortably so I keep growing trumpet-wize, but I must please "The Reverend" and his Edward Gorey/Tom Waites estetic, but that's fine, it's fun all around. I will admit that I'm in my 40s, and started playing trumpet before some of my band mates were born...
I had always thought that some new/old music-hybred was the way to go for me with trumpet. Every rock pattern has been done a thousand times, there are new arrangements and personalities, but too often it seems that marketing people choose what is played on radio based on image, so people are hungry for something new: so why not go elsewhere, maybe further back into some fictional exotic past in a Modern Way...anyway, it works. I played bass guitar also in bands in the 80s and 90s, almost made the jump to full time then, but since I went back to trumpet as my #1 instrument five years ago, it's been rewarding because I get to be free of playing the dam bass line; that's too much responsibility for me...and trumpet is lighter to carry...you know...

_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-04-11 10:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-04-11 11:03 ]

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 8:51 am Post subject:

PFrank...
This last post of your's is truly a keeper. You also are quite a historian and quite humous, the progression of instruments story of yours.. and also the path you have chosen over your amazing career in music and finally with the trumpet truly show that you HAVE BEEN THERE, DONE THAT AND ARE STILL DOIN' THAT THAG' YOU DO!!! is a pretty great testiment in itself, these days.
"Reminds me of "patter" voicing that appeared on that old album by Miles Davis and Chuck Findley... "DINGO"... when Miles was heard screwing around on a little toy electonic piano...and Findley asking Miles
"Why don't you play trumpet" and Miles answer back...

"I DON'T PLAY TRUMPET"...but "I AM PLAYING TRUMPET!" and it is obvious that he has the trumpet in his other hand while toying around with the electronic piano playing cords.
"Miles says somethin' like...Here, I'll play you a C!" Miles fluffs out a meager sounding C..and then comments..."I DO BETTA' WHEN I'M WARMED UP!" And then the CD goes on to some really amazingly wonderful high energy trumpet by both he and Chuck Findley.

I guess what I am trying to say....an artist musician often chooses many avenues to get their musicianship and passions for music across to masses in the best way possible.
Just a few weeks ago...
Terrence Blanchard was in town at Jazz Alley. He mentioned one of the reasons he still performs TRUMPET GIGS..is to continue fore-most the effort, and his roots, that he is still a viable trumpet player , but at the same time not to take lightly his new avenues in being a HUGE SUCCESS..
at.writing musical scores for both TV and MOVIES and also directing many other musical projects for and with other main-stream artists.

Although his main love is still trumpet...but the MONEY GAINED...and equally important,is also THE FAME-GAME! AND ACKNOWLEDGEMENT FROM THE MASSES..in some respects is perhaps VERY REWARDING but equally addicting.
The downside to all this "LIVE PERFORMANCE GIGS" is the Flying and traveling, staying in motels, away from his family etc...remains the horrific minus plus 10... to all this and the task of performing and maintaining his roots as a jazz trumpet player becomes a very difficult daily task at best...and all that jazz.

jgadvert · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:37 am Post subject:

Jake Painter:

Your post said it all. Thank you so much.
I was gettin pretty lonley here. I ONCE POSTED "WHO ARE THE LEADERS HERE?"
GOT NO RESPONSES, NOT SURPRISED

Pfrank:

I think many players here would agree that we must play the Trumpet. Thats what we are...Trumpet Players. Yeah, I have and would play for free.

Get off the labeling me the "business guy type"
BECAUSE I GET IT. There are masses here in my area that want to hear what I do(as well as CB's stuff.)

BTW. Great that your getting paid well for your upcoming show. Who booked you there?
Maybe your so popular that the Knitting Factory called you (thats rare but cool if its your case.) Most of us band leaders have to work like dogs and go out and hustle the work up.

The rest of us get booked because the nightclubs(and private parties and weddings)
people recognize that we give the people what they want.

Really great to take the "I'm a creative non-sell out" stance. Maybe your one of the rare guys who are able to find places to play with your stuff. I know I'd be sitting home alot.

I LIKE TO PLAY/WORK. They are both the same thing to me! If you think you love playing more than me(and that goes for you too Adam!) you'd be wrong!

BTW.

pfrank · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:05 pm Post subject:

jgadvert, it's obvious from how you present yourself that you got it goin on just fine. Music And business. I was heartened to see the positive replies this morning; (thanks Bad Boy-Don, YOUR posts are the most entertaining here, a real interesting read; I even like it when I'm challenged to figure your out imaginative language) I had been afraid that I'd gone too far... jgadvert, stick to your guns, and never mind the bullocs! I wouldn't try to suggest that anybody does anything for any ascribable reason (more or less love whatever) unless I had personal knowledge, but even then judgments like that are not valid because you neva know what will lead to what.
I agree with the poster that said that EVERY musician is valuable, and just because some don't line up with the industries' (Moloch's) value filter, doesn't mean they are playing in a vacume and not contributing to the art and all humanity.
I am NOT an anti social miserable avant guardist, I saw that going on years ago and have tried to stay clear from that trap. But if I didn't love playing in my band, if I didn't respect the music, and if the members weren't all inclusive friendly interesting human beings, not into power plays and such, I would have been happy going on doing what I had been doing. I think that's why I got "lucky" last year in joing the band, because I could take it or leave it. But that's just me and my life path. Spirit seems to provide, even if I am dragged kicking... I work a day job too which I enjoy and I am a bit of a home body. jgadvert, you may be the kind of journy-man trumpet warior I have always admired because I couldn't take that path.
The Knitting Factory DID call US after someone there heard the CD that we released in October, but they booked us into the big room there when they found out we could deliver Slim Cessna's Auto Club who do well in NY City.
I got into the band through mere friendship: one day I walked into a gift store owned by a good friend, and sittin at the counter clerkin was this interesting looking fellow and we struck up a conversation and this happened a few times. One time he was playing two music boxes together very slowly so that unexpected intervals happened, and then one day I look at a local music magazine, (New England Performer) and the guy on the cover is my friend from the store! Turns out he is Thee Reverend Glasseye himself! Some months later after more pleasant conversations, he is playing a CD of Gypsy Brass band music, and he's telling me how much he likes brass instruments (he sings and plays guitar, banjo, dobro, old keybords, musical saw and theramin) and I tell him, hey, I play trumpet, and he says the clarinet player just quit the band over some petty dissagreement, would I like to come down and sit in sometime? I said OK...

jgadvert · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2002 12:29 pm Post subject:

Pfrank:

Very cool! I think we set a good example for other forum posters. Although we pretty much have opposing viewpoints, we respect each others stance.

You are the journeyman. You bring faith to your project...not really knowing how far it will take you. My cover band success was guaranteed from the beggining cause I knew no one was doing a show quite like mine(I'll elaborate if you want). The local mass(said it again!) market was waiting for me just as we see an apple tree full off fruit waiting for me harvest. It was that easy!

I'm sure Chris Bottis handlers (mgmt, record lable etc..) had made the same determination regarding an opportunity being available.

Guess you figured out I'm a marketing guy by day huh? (ha ha)

Martin · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 10:37 am Post subject:

Hey pfrank,

any chance you are coming to Vienna when in Europe?
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

pfrank · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:11 am Post subject:

Thanks for asking. I have enjoyed your posts.
At this point I have no idea. That's a long way away (in time). I certainly hope so, I've heard it's beautiful. There's a poster here from Bath England, I envy that location too, but that's because I've been there.
The US tour is still being organized as we are looking for more shows for the return trip; a couple fell through. (That's one thing about this business, clubs can bump you off and not let you know until the last minute. No problem when it's local, but lousy on the road. Ethical booking people are Very appreciated)
We got a huge new Dodge church-van, and are taking the Northern road to Denver with stops inbetween, then SF and Seattle (where Bad-boy Don lives...). In Denver we are playing an outdoor festival and a 1200 seat theatre in one day. In Mazulla (sp?) Montana, they are putting us up for the night for free, but we have to play 3 sets. Mostly, I'm hoping there will be opportunity to get regular showers and good sleep. The music part is never a worry.

[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-04-12 14:14 ]

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

This is a very interesting conversation as it relates to both the "practical" and the "artistic" dimensions of the performing arts.
It seems that what is revealed in many of the postings is the particular viewpoints of individuals as to what each deems as important and of personal priority.I don't think anyone would suggest that all artistic advances/explorations should be sacrificed at the expense of commercialism,or that those who play and/or enjoy what amounts to "mass-appeal"music also don't have a valid niche as performers,and have somehow "sold-out" in the pursuit of "true artistry."
Fact is,there is a lot of room for all kinds to co-exist and do their own respective thing.
I like Botti because I like his sound and lyrical approach to playing.For that same reason,I also have great respect for Herb Alpert, who occasionally gets mentioned in the same context.I like players who seem to use the horn as an extension of the voice.I admire someone who can interpret a song in the manner of a master vocalist,e.g.Sinatra,and seem to "sing" through the horn.
At the same time,it is also good that someone is willing to get out there and take some chances and explore new and different territory,regardless of the commercial prospects.
Let them all find their places and audiences and everyone will probably be better of for it.

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

This is a very interesting conversation as it relates to both the "practical" and the "artistic" dimensions of the performing arts.
It seems that what is revealed in many of the postings is the particular viewpoints of individuals as to what each deems as important and of personal priority.I don't think anyone would suggest that all artistic advances/explorations should be sacrificed at the expense of commercialism,or that those who play and/or enjoy what amounts to "mass-appeal"music also don't have a valid niche as performers,and have somehow "sold-out" in the pursuit of "true artistry."
Fact is,there is a lot of room for all kinds to co-exist and do their own respective thing.
I like Botti because I like his sound and lyrical approach to playing.For that same reason,I also have great respect for Herb Alpert, who occasionally gets mentioned in the same context.I like players who seem to use the horn as an extension of the voice.I admire someone who can interpret a song in the manner of a master vocalist,e.g.Sinatra,and seem to "sing" through the horn.
At the same time,it is also good that someone is willing to get out there and take some chances and explore new and different territory,regardless of the commercial prospects.
Let them all find their places and audiences and everyone will probably be better of for it.