Carnival of Venice

[kenny dorham is an animal]

anyone have any suggestions for practicing Carnival of Venice? Particularly the last movement. Any tips on this monster are appreciated.
Thanx
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Im out for dead presidents to represent me-Nas

DRES

[vivace]

with anything hard like that, work at it one line by one line or one phrase by one phrase. Don't do all of it at once until you have mastered it all.
Think of the music as pie. You don't gourge the whole pie at once and get sick, you eat it piece by piece and nicely finish it.

So start with one part for the week, woodshed the heck out of it until you can play those 8 or whateve measures perfectly. Then nextweek, go to the next line.
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"All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing no song." - Louis Armstrong

[ChopsMcgraw]

Play it SLOW, start at a incredibly slow tempo and work it up a few clicks at a time. Just remember to articulate like you are going to when it gets up to tempo. This works very well for everything.


ChopsMcgraw

[tcutrpt]

I agree with chops. Also, the more you practice that way, in time, you are able to work things up much faster by first starting really slow.

Matt

[_PhilPicc]

BEAST,

The other posts are exactly correct as far as starting slow and then working up to speed. If you have ever heard a Herbert Clark recording you will also notice that he does not play it at a BLAZING speed, but it is very smooth.

Also practice it softly, it makes it easier to accentuate the primary melody notes. You what to make it sound like a duet. Also make sure you play a D and not a Bb on the the notes between the melody.

Once you get the hang of it, it really is a breeze. At least on some days.

HTH,
Phil



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Philip Satterthwaite

[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2002-04-10 23:24 ]

[Kenman]

I would try playing the articulations long when playing it slow. As you go faster try keeping them long so the melody notes will sound nice and full instead of short and pecky(is that a word)

Ken

[trjeam]

Carnival is a toughy. I have been working on it little by little for about 1 year know and I can only play it until the begining of the 3rd.

I took me a long time because I had to learn how to double and triple toungue. But I worked with it very slowly and I agree about taking the parts apart and be very slow and then speed stuff up because if you can't play something slow then you can't def. play it fast.

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-09-24 22:06 ]

[Warbird]

Yall, I have but one thing to say to you guys...its people like you who are so good that when I hear you I just say, "I quit." *lol* The is an insane peice...I hope I can play it someday. I look up to you guys.

In Christ,
joseph N. Pack
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Holton MF ST307 -Marc Bobby Shew 1E10.3
Bach Strad. Mo 43 - Bach 1X
1929 Conn. - Bach 1X
1935 H. N. White Co. Cornet - Denis Wick 4B

[Greatest Trumpeter]

The most important thing to me is don't shy away from the music. Play it boldly. And listen to the low notes. That's where the melody is.
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SCHILKE
"O Music, sphere-descended maid
Friend of pleasure, wisdom's aid" -William Collins

"So live that you can look any man in the eye and tell him to go to hell." -Anon

[albanator16]

Hey I agree with all of these guys and also this piece is one that obviously needs memorization and you need to think ahead, be prepared for the next octave leap and know whats coming up, thats where the woodsheding comes in. I'm actually playing this in concert tomorrow night, and have been working on it for about 7 or 8 months, and that last movement is pretty crazy. but just get some muscle memorization and keep your mind one jump ahead and you'll breeze through it all the way to that 4th line F

[ This Message was edited by: albanator16 on 2002-04-15 23:04 ]

[pair of kings]

here is a different slant fwiw. To gain spped and contininuity and good timing, here are 2 approaches. one is a different twist to gradually increasing tempo which is half speed and double speed. half speed will seem ungodly slow but work for exact timing of fingering and bringing out the melody, you will be surpised how clean it is when you double the tempo and it will help you really see where you are going and take the panic out of it. The other thing that works is to practice faster speeds with smaller groups of notes (musical groups upbeat to downbeat) then string them together into bigger groups. I guess that is too obvious to mention. If you are making mistakes, you are going too fast. Good luck, have fun. And don't forget to Blow

[Yoinks]

For the flexibility, do those octave studies in the Arban's book, you know, and the interval studies. Make them religion for at least four weeks. Start as slow as you have to to make them perfect.

On the actual piece=>Often mindless repetition will do you no good, but here again, slow way, WAY, down, and play that thing like a beatiful ballad, only with all the right articulations, so that you get a feel for the flow of the music and phrasing, and then slowly speed it up to performance tempo. This is one of those pieces that is relatively easy to play, but often beyond the realm of most players to really play WELL.

[trumpjosh]

The hardest part about the last variation (assuming you are doing the Arban's version) is the octave jumps. Leave all the noodly notes out for a while. Try (at moderate speed) to pound out the low notes (the melody) fairly strong and then sustain a third space C during the noodly part. If you can master this, all you have to do is get the fingers coordinated and you'll be flying in no time. This is how I practice it... I hope what I wrote makes sense.

FWIW,
Josh

[ahtpt]

I love playing this piece...here's how I learned the last movement: play just the accented notes that make up the melody, and finger, but don't play the "filler" notes in between. Do this at the regular tempo, until you have the feel of the melody down, and under control. Then, play just the filler notes, leaving the accented ones out (again, finger the accented notes, but don't play them). This part is MUCH tougher than it sounds, as you have to consciously leave an empty space where the melody should be sounding. Then, when you have both parts under control, put them together. Make sure you focus on bringing out the melody (accented notes) by playing those notes "longer." Listen to Wynton Marsalis play this thing - in my opinion, no one can or has done it better! Hope this isn't too confusing - if any of this didn't make sense, please let me know, cuz this really works!

[tcutrpt]

As far as recordings go, I really love Mendez's version too. He sounds amazing. Too bad they didn't have better sounding recording equipment back then to get a better idea.

matt

[mark936]

I lost the last variation so I don't have to worry about it. (but I have it memorized to that point) 3-4 minutes worth.

Here's something Claude Gordon had me do to learn tough passages.

Work backwards. i.e. do a few beats and get it right and then add the passage for the 2nd and 1st beat.

And he insisted that I play it flawless eight times straight. If at any point I flubbed-- start all over.

I have Mark Inuone (sp?) on a '95 Lincoln Arts childrens special video from a Wynton special playing it on cornet. Flawless, beautiful and inspirational.

mm
Calicchio 1s-3 ml
65 Selmer m liteweight
LeBlanc 707 Herriot and LeBlanc C
Mirage pocket trumpet
Olds Super Recording cornet
Schilke 14 m/p

[SchilkeB1]

Hi,

A lot of stuff has been covered, but remeber this too: work on your breath support and endurance. You may have all the technique but run out of air/endurance, and nothing comes out. The phrases in the last movement are long, especially in the Clarke version, so remeber to take big, deep breaths to finish as well as you've started.

Matt

[Strawdoggy]

Beast,

I am working this up for some performances in Europe this coming summer. Whose version are you playing??

I agree with all the replies concerning slowing it down. Using a metronome is a clear way to check your progress. What I have been doing is exaggerating the accented notes (theme) with heavy pops from the diaphragm and playing the obligato under the theme at pp. I wouldn't do this in a performance - but it is a means to an end.

Since you are asking for advice, I would memorize it ASAP ( if you haven't already) so you can concentrate on the music, and not on the notes.

This is going to sound weird, but whenever I have to do a legit solo in performance, I always practicie it in the dark, standing up, after it is memorized.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[limits_unknown]

Im having to work Carnival of Venice for a week of master classes over summer and I've discovered it's quite a bit easier than it sounds well, except for the last movement :S