spray paint a trumpet ?

[diz the wiz]

i've just bought a old trumpet in raw brass,
i don't want to invest in a new lacquer finish,
what would happen if i spray paint the trumpet,do you think the sound would become dull because of the thickness of the finish.let me know if somebody have done it.and what is the impact of doing so?

[radiobob]

Well, I saw one on Ebay that had been spray painted and it looked surprisingly good. I wouldn't think it would harm the tone, it's basically the same as lacquer isn't it? Give it a try, you can always remove it and leave it in raw brass. Tell us how it turns out.

Bob

[Jon Arnold]

I don't think it is a good idea. It would change the sound for the worse. If you wanted to sell the horn in the future, people would be reluctant to buy it. Overall a bad idea.

[bdev]

Why don't you spray it with clear lacquer instead of paint?

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Olds Studio Trumpet
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Bach Strad 37

[ This Message was edited by: bdev on 2004-05-15 13:39 ]

[jophst]

Yes ... certainly the clear lacquer over the raw brass. Is there a certain color you are trying to achieve like those colorful Martin Committee's or the Black lacquer like Jupiter has?

Truthfully, if it was a horn I really planned on keeping I would have it professionally done in whatever color you were thinking. They will get it buffed to an even finish where it needs to be and make sure that when it is lacquered/plated that there is nothing that will remain under the finish to cause wear and harm later from underneath.

Otherwise, it sounds like a fun experiment to say the least ... just make sure you have a plan, and that it will be PERMANENT once it's on there. There isn't an "UNDO" button on this process.
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[WaxHaX0rS]

Errr, couldn't you just strip it if it didn't turn out jophst?

[Morrisey]

You wouldn't be the first. Early in the 20th century, the US Army ordered bugles (actually field trumpets) painted in olive drab so they would not reflect light and draw fire.

That said, I think you should consider two points:

First, any nonmetallic finish changes the sound of a horn. Back in the 1950s, Schilke did a study in which he selected three trumpets in raw brass that sounded identical. He left one unfinished, silver-plated another, and lacquered the third. Then he had professional orchestral musicians play each one. They agreed that plating did nothing to affect the sound of the horn (at least nothing that they could hear), whereas lacquering changed both pitch and brilliance. Schilke postulated that this is because the plating resonates with the brass, while the lacquer deadens it (and the plating was also thinner than the lacquer coating).

Second, traditional lacquering has generally been a thinly applied, finish that is oven-baked under highly controlled conditions. Anything you do with a spray can will probably be thicker (thus componding the issues mentioned in point one, above). And home attempts at baking a finish could very well weaken solders and cause any number of related ills.

Hope this helps.
Tom

[jophst]

Yes I suppose you could ... I was just saying that it's hard to tell how it will turn out once it's finish. It may end up looking better with the Raw Brass .. then the messy process of removing it begins.

That is NO fun I can tell you that ... I used the Oven Cleaner method. Never EVER again.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

[MarkHeuer]

Interesting topic. I have a Holton T602 on Ebay right now that is a nice little player for a student model. It is raw brass. I might end my auction and spray paint it blue just for the heck of it. If it doesn't turn out well, my loss is certainly minimal. But if it does turns out, it might look pretty cool as a 2nd/beater horn.

[musicalmason]

not a good Idea, I had a freind who tried it on two different horns, a raw brass conn 22B (that played well originally, for a student horn) and a king student horn, that was also desent for a student model, although it was beat up. and they both ended up as dead as a piece of pvc pipe. no ring to the sound at all, I played them before and after and there was a very noticeable sound difference, for the worst.

[Eclipse Trumpets]

Jophst is right!

The main concern when lacquering or plating an instrument is how the surface of the brass is prepared prior to the application of either covering rather than the covering itself.

The finishes are only going to be as good as the surface they need to adhere to.

Most companies (mine included ) use lacquers that are baked on in ovens at around 160oC to harden the lacquer and achieve a tougher shell.
Air drying lacquer or spray paint (the kind you will be using is nowhere near as tough, but will do the job for a good while if looked after.

The best thing to do to prepare for the lacquering and give yourself the best chance of success is to firstly:-

decide what you want either a scratched finish or polished

Once you have the instrument in the finish you like having used either scotchbrite pads for the scratch finish or polishing compounds/brasso etc etc for the polished then:

You must clean the instrument thoroughly!!! this is probably the most important stage! how well you do this will make a big difference in how well your lacquer adheres.

Use white spirit/thinners or general degreasants from your local hardware store on cloths to wipe over each and every inch of the instrument.
This lifts off grease that you will not see by eye and also takes away fingerprints which only show up real bad after the lacquer goes on and brings them out in all their glory.
Surface grease is the major problem when lacquering as it stays underneath the lacquer for a while in between the lacquer and the surface of the brass forming a type of sheild, so the lacquer at this particular point is not actually stuck to the brass at all!
Over a short time the lacquer above this grease spot will start to lift causing you loss of lacquer in that area and once that happens its only a matter of time before moisture works its way underneath the rest.

Try and use gloves for this process as you will no doubt end up putting more fingerprints on the brass than take off if you handle it so much.

Of course all the valves and slides should be out of the horn at that stage (hopefully goes without saying!) no rubber bands or waterkey pads , plastic valve locaters or anything perishable should be near the white spirit/thinners or they will melt before your eyes.

Before spraying!!!! place wine corks if you have them into both ends of the valve section so as to prevent the overspray going inside the valve section.
This should be done for the slide ends too if you have the right size corks!

Try and hang the horn bell flare down from a washing line or anything you can, outside on a very calm warm day.
No lacquers like to be used in a cold atmosphere!
Spray in an up and down movement moving around the horn! keep moving around and around until you feel you have the coverage you require, staying too long in one place will cause runs which are ugly and spoil the effect of what you are doing.

The only other tip i can give is to save yourself all this bother and take it to your local tech! but you already knew that right.

I hope that this helps a little? a lot of what i wrote is of course common sense, but i thought id better make it clear.

If anyone needs any more help with this then feel free to ask.

Regards

Leigh

[MarkHeuer]

I painted my raw brass T602 royal blue this evening. I'm going to let it dry, touch it up tomorrow, then see how it plays.

Mark

[ This Message was edited by: markheuer on 2004-05-15 23:37 ]

[radiobob]

Some great posts here. Just curious, does the process of baking on the lacquer have any effect on the soldered joints? And, is there any kind of lacquer or paint that is readily available that we could use at home that would be close to what you get at a repair shop?

Bob

[Getzenguy]

One more opinion to muddy the waters. A friend of mine had a raw brass Bel Canto model 54, it was a great horn, but not shiny and pretty so he had Dick Ackright lacquer it. Dick did a great job and it looked real good but the horn did not play near as well, three of us agreed on the fact that the before was much better than the after. So, to make a short story long, my friend had Dick remove the lacquer from the horn but sadly enough it did not play the same as it originally did. I am of the opinion that if you like the way your horn plays don't mess with it. Enjoy!
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Getzen 3850S cornet

[Druyff]

Maybe he dropped it, bent it straight again and buffed the wrinkels out before lacquering it.

Raw brass rulez!

[mcamilleri]

I posted a few months ago on a DIY relacquer (sic) using polycarbonate car glaze. It is far easier and cleaner to apply than spray, and gives a very smooth, high-gloss, consistent finish, with no marks or runs at all. I used it on my nickel plated/delacquered Olds Special, and the finish is still looking like new. The glaze does not seem to have reacted with the areas of raw brass on the horn, and the sound was unchanged.

If you want more info, have a search through the archive for the posting and pictures. One member said he was going to try it on a raw brass horn.

Michael
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[plankowner110]

Try DayGlo paint- it looks great under blacklights!
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