Kanstul 4-valve flugelhorn

WFUnix · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Aug 2003 Posts: 433

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned before - Kanstul has a 4-valve Signature series flugel now!

http://www.kanstul.net/pages/instruments/zk%20models/zkf1526m.html

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 10:28 pm Post subject:

Very interesting. If it plays as well as the other Kanstuls, this could be a serious flugel contender for me (being a fan of 4 valve - love those low notes!!).

Great to see that there is a trigger on the first slide. I don't see one on the third, but that could just be the picture angle. I know that the 4th valve is supposed to make the slides redundant, but, personally, I like having both.

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

Beautiful! Yes, there's no third valve trigger, but from Kanstul with a first valve trigger and the fourth valve, who cares! I'd love to try one of these. Wonder why Kanstul isn't pushing them harder?

[ This Message was edited by: nextbrassguy on 2004-05-28 09:55 ]

KanstulBrass · Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 7:47 am Post subject:

Hello,

Believe it or not, this horn is not exactly new. It was first built for Claudio Roditi (who also performs and records with our ZKF 1525 Signature Flugel with the copper bell). Really, we've just added it to the website this week (yesterday in fact, but we didn't know it would get your attention so quickly). This horn features a 6" brass bell, but it can be ordered with the 6 1/2" copper bell. It is built with the signature flugel valve section, with a fourth valve added. There is a first slide trigger, but none on the third slide. You can see from the photo that the pinky ring is parallel with the fourth valve, that's the way that Claudio wanted it, but we can put it where you want. We've just added it to our new flugel horn brochure that we had printed just two months ago.

Regards,

Charles Hargett
National Sales Manager
Kanstul Musical Instruments

[ This Message was edited by: KanstulBrass on 2004-05-27 11:01 ]

trumpetmike · Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:49 pm Post subject:

Charles - would it be possible to obtain a third valve trigger for this instrument?
Or would we have to fit one ourselves, should we want one?

Will one of these be appearing at ITG?
Very interested in trying one.

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

From the placement of the third valve slide ("perpendicular" to the horn rather than "parallel" to it, if you see what I mean), it looks to me like the real problem is not how to attach a third valve slide trigger, but how you would operate one! Any thoughts?

[ This Message was edited by: nextbrassguy on 2004-06-17 15:40 ]

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:27 am Post subject:

I'm a little puzzled by why one needs a 3d valve trigger on a horn that has both a 1st valve trigger and a 4th valve. I can't conceive of a case where one or both of those won't accomplish the needed adjustments. (At least to the F# under the staff) Can anyone explain this to me?

Cheers,

Tom

trumpetmike · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:31 am Post subject:

In simple terms - More Options.

The more options there are available for tuning certain notes, the more likelihood of being able to obtain them in tune.

Not to mention the fact that it will then mean you can go low and get those in tune as well (below F#).

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:35 pm Post subject:

Yes, more options, but at some point you run out of fingers. Three fingers on the left hand work the first three valves. Left hand thumb works the 1st valve trigger, left hand index works the 4th valve. Doesn't leave much to operate the trigger.

samlg · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:24 am Post subject:

look at the amount of triggers on this beast! i wonder what it is like to play.

http://www.thein-brass.de/content/en/instruments.php?itname=Fluegelhorn&id=89

it might be easier to put a third trigger on this gorgeous thing

http://www.hans-kromat.de/E_Hans_Kromat_Instrumentmaker_/E-Instruments/E-3_Fluegelhorns/E-4_Fluegelhorns/e-4_fluegelhorns.html

it looks like a great flug to play.

have fun, sam

samlg · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:27 am Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: samlg on 2004-06-02 11:26 ]

crzytptman · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:45 am Post subject:

My Eterna does not have any triggers - I should would like some to get the low register (below F#) better in tune. I use my right pinky for 4th valve so I've got some fingers available. I can see a solution by looking at the marching alto horn Kanstul makes. One of the High schools I work with uses them. There is a slide operated with the left thumb which is post valve block. It de-tunes the entire horn. There would have to be a crook added to the shape of the flugel, But I would welcome that design as I regularly play down to super low C (2 below staff).

Nate
_________________
Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

KanstulBrass · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject:

trumpetmike · Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:17 pm Post subject:

Oh well, will just have to try everything else instead!!!

mafields627 · Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:12 pm Post subject:

Looks like you could create a lever to run horizontally between the fourth valve slide and the bell that could be used as a trigger for the third valve. Perhaps it could pivot off an assembly attached to the third or fourth valve. If you used your right pinky to operate the fourth valve, you would be free to use your left index finger to operate the third trigger. You might have to make the pivot point on the left hand side of the valve casing somehow to keep the pressure equal and not bend the rod connected to the slide.
_________________
--Matt--

No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

samlg · Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:13 am Post subject:

heres another new one

http://www.courtois-paris.com/panneaufluge.html

i think id rather have the kanstul, it looks like a great horn

have fun, sam

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

Note the fixed fourth valve slide ring. Maybe Kanstul should think about adding one?

LUTrumpeter · Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:45 am Post subject:

Looking at the picture of the Kanstul, I think it would be pretty difficult to get a trigger for the third slide. A ring on the fourth slide would be more feesable. Personally, with the fourth valve I would not want the ring on the fourth slide. I think the fourth valve would be enough for me to fix any intonation problems.

David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

What I find puzzling - I would have expected it to be a 1525 with a 4th valve added - it appears to be an entirely different horn?
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Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

bighorn · New Member Joined: 25 May 2005 Posts: 1

I've just bought an old model Courtois 156 4 valve flugel. Beautiful instrument and tone but I am having some tuning difficulties . I also thought that a 4 valve instrument was inherently more in tune with itself and so should not need triggers. I am hoping that its just a matter of getting used to the instrument after switching from my old 3 valve flugel with a 3rd valve trigger (only had it a couple of weeks)
Anybody else have difficulties with 4 valve models after switching from 3 valve models?