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STAINLESS STEEL MOUTHPIECE?


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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2630

PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often wondered if a stainless steel mouthpiece would work well. Obvious advantages:

1. doesn't need plating
2. won't corrode
3. has several times the molecular mass of brass

I asked Kanstul if he could make one for me (copy of a new Bach 1B) but he hasn't responded back yet. I know that they are worried about the cutting bits, but making just one shouldn't dull them much. I also know that metal suppliers often require accounts to purchase solid rod stock (2" diameter) in 20 ft. sticks. That would cost a fortune! (He is probably trying to get a smaller remnant.)

I just wonder if anyone out there has actually tried this.

Dave Hickman
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Hickman,

This company makes tuba mouthpieces in stainless steel. Check them out:

http://www.gwmouthpieces.com/
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trumpetchops
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not call Bach?

They have the steel account for bells
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Rick
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an uncle who is a retired tool-and-die maker. He spent his live working on a lathe with a variety of metals. He once mentioned to me that working with stainless steel, while not impossible, is very difficult and somewhat unforgiving. I'm guessing that dull bits are another aspect of this difficulty.

The Sarad (sp?) adjustable mouthpiece is available with a stainless steel rim. Maybe someone there could answer your questions in more depth...


saradmouthpiece@uci.net

---<Rick


P.S. I'm curious about the practically of a stainless steel mouthpiece
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. I just emailed them to see if they have made trumpet mouthpieces. I'll give a report as soon as I hear from them. I will also ask Sam Pilafian, our tuba professor (two doors down the hall from my office), to see if he has tried them.

DH
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Mr.Hollywood
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Around 10 or 12 years ago a NY trumpeter named Joe Sheply went into the mouthpiece business. His mouthpieces where screw rims, and the rims where solid stainless steel.

They where called the "Sheprieto Masterpiece".

Check it out.

Chris
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Souperman
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Joined: 20 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a bass trombone friend in Houston that made his own mouthpiece out of stainless steel. He is a great player and is well respected and works a lot. I've approached him several times about making me a stainless steel trumpet mouthpiece, but he says it would be too difficult because of the small tooling, etc. BUT, he said that if he ever tries, I'm the first one on the list. I'll call him soon and propose the idea again to him.
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2004 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have exchanged a few emails with Ivan Giddings (GW Mouthpieces). Yes, they make tuba mouthpieces and bass trombone mouthpieces in stainless steel.

They are in process of moving their shop right now and will be up and running in about 3-4 weeks. One of the things they want to start (next month) is trying trumpet mouthpieces in stainless. I have agreed to try some. They can also copy anything so long as they can slice the original in half in order to measure all of the insides. (So much for your favorite custom mouthpiece!)

I'll report in a month or so.

Dave Hickman
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crazyhorns
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This gentleman has done custom work for me, and his workmanship has been excellent:

http://housermouthpiece.com/

.... his website mentions availability of stainless steel rims.

~Steve Hyde~

[ This Message was edited by: crazyhorns on 2004-08-22 00:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: crazyhorns on 2004-08-22 09:35 ]
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Andy Cooper
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank's for Houser's website - I lost track of him a few years ago when he apparently changed his e-mail address. He did some excellent duplication of rims and backbores for me plus a lot of cut and thread jobs.
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Kateeba
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The information exchange on this site NEVER ceases to amaze me. There is usually always somebody that knows something about a question asked. Love it!

Lou
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Tom LeCompte
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>> 3. has several times the molecular mass of brass

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "molecular mass", since metals aren't really molecular. If you mean atomic weight, the atomic weight of copper is 13% more than that of iron. When alloyed with zinc, the average atomic weight will be close to that of iron. If you mean density, again, brass is somewhere between 10 and 15% denser than steels. (Depending on the brass and the steel)

Even if you had a stainless steel mouthpiece, I think you would want a brass shank. Otherwise, you run the risk that the differences in thermal expansion will cause the mouthpiece to more easily get stuck in the receiver.

Cheers,

Tom
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_PhilPicc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Hickman,

I'm just wondering what would be the benefits of a stainless piece?

The cost of stainless would more than offset the cost of plating. Stainless has a work hardening problem as far as machining goes. This means the more operations you do on the material the more stress is created in future processes and the harder it is to remove material.

Making just one, the tool bits used to machine brass would be destroyed machining stainless. Also there are hundreds of different alloys of stainless.

Interesting concept though.
Former cutting tool engineer,
Phil

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[ This Message was edited by: PhilPicc on 2004-08-22 22:04 ]
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FlugelFlyer
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question, what style threads does Houser use for his rims? I have a particular 3C rim that I love but would like to have it put on a similar mouthpiece to the one I'm using now and have various underparts also.


[edit: help if I give a name]
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Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT


Last edited by FlugelFlyer on Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Smithee
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpt.hick wrote:
I have often wondered if a stainless steel mouthpiece would work well. Obvious advantages:

1. doesn't need plating
2. won't corrode
3. has several times the molecular mass of brass

I asked Kanstul if he could make one for me (copy of a new Bach 1B) but he hasn't responded back yet. I know that they are worried about the cutting bits, but making just one shouldn't dull them much. I also know that metal suppliers often require accounts to purchase solid rod stock (2" diameter) in 20 ft. sticks. That would cost a fortune! (He is probably trying to get a smaller remnant.)

I just wonder if anyone out there has actually tried this.

Dave Hickman


David,
Mark Curry has been making stainless steel mouthpiece now for several years. And he also makes several versions of the classic Bach mouthpieces too.
Larry
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Gurukid
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Smithee wrote:

Mark Curry has been making stainless steel mouthpiece now for several years. And he also makes several versions of the classic Bach mouthpieces too.
Larry


Curry has made some custom mouthpieces for the local music store in San Diego. The music store gave me his info when I was looking for a custom mouthpiece:

Phone: (775) 677-2133
Fax: (775) 677-4520
www.currympc.com

He has a waiting list to talk to him, so be prepared to wait it out.
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Rich G
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had talked with Mark Curry regarding his plans to make aluminum trumpet mouthpieces. He mentioned that there were many problems that had to be surmounted to make that a reality. I believe he has now abandoned the idea. I would be very curious how a steel mouthpiece would play. BTW, Joe Shepley, mentioned earlier, was a wonderful trumpet player. Gorgeous sound on Time After Time solo with the Duke Pearson Big Band LP that I have.
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trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Giddings at GW Mouthpieces was SUPPOSED to be in touch with me as soon as they moved into their new shop (about 3 months ago), but I haven't heard anything. They were going to send me several stainless trumpet mouthpieces to try. (They have been successful in the tuba market and are now wanting to explore the trumpet possibilities.) I'll have to email him again. Thanks for bringing up this old thread!

Larry....I didn't know that Mark Curry has been making stainless pieces. I would call him, but he seems to never return calls (even though I was one of his teachers!) and I never get anyone to answer the phone. Naturally, I am curious how they work. Anyone out there ever try one?

DH
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2005 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Email Mark.. sometimes he answers that pretty quick. He does not like to answer the phone too much now... it takes him away from making mouthpieces ($). Many years ago I used to call him and talk for some time... so I guess it is my falt.

He did the aluminum for a little while... I guess it was not worth the time and effort. I would try a SS piece.
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Dave Houser
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Stainless Steel Mouthpieces Reply with quote

Hi,
I've received a number of inquiries about stainless mouthpieces so hopefully this post will serve as a general update as to where I am on their development.

We currently make stock stainless 1, 2 & 3 piece models for fr. horn, trombone, and tuba. I have made numerous trumpet and flugel mouthpieces on a custom level. They have been screw top, shanks, rims, and 1 piece variants. The challenge in making trumpet mouthpieces from stainless is the backbore. Stainless for a variety of reasons is not particularly friendly towards tapered reamers. Step drilled backbores and hybrids that are combo/stepped and bored, work well however as a manufacturer, the "market acceptance" of that design style may be slower than the taper/smooth backbores used in brass mp's. We have found a method of making the backbores smooth without reamers. Several designs are being tested and if everything looks good, I should have some 1 and 2 piece models to offer by mid February.

Feedback from trumpet players using stainless:

-Rims are comfortable regardless of contour. Stainless will not stick to the chops like silver plate and can reduce the soreness after a long gig.

-The sound is "clear", "compact". Deeper cups (in flugels, and B cups in tpt.) have a notable improvement in clarity, "core", and percieved centered pitch. Projection & perhaps efficiency and volume is noticeably greater(all customers playing lead report this).

-Screw rims or tops have used on brass underparts or screw shanks will produce changes noted above though to a lesser degree.

In the end, stainless presents a few more options for the player to consider, of course it won't be a cure-all. Ultimately the player must decide what fits their style and sound.

I am behind in updating the website (my apologies) however if you have any questions you mail drop me an email dave@housermouthpiece.com

Dave Houser
Houser Mouthpieces
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