a respectful request for Ebayers

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

If I'm out of line, I'm sure you'll let me know...but here's my request.

Hypothetically speaking, if there are perhaps individuals on TH who may occasionally bid on Ebay, please try not to bid early and low on, say, 50 auctions at a time, while winning very few, as all you are doing is driving up the prices for those who bid in hopes of actually winning one every once in a while. I realize it's not against the rules, but it's a little annoying.

thanks.

camel lips · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Jan 2004 Posts: 687

Here Here Stew.LEt me buy you a beer.

It burns me to no end when a item I am watching starts getting bids on it right off the bat.What can you do though,its a public forum.

Of course when I am selling I want to see those guys bidding like crazy on it so its a two way street.

There are some tricks to getting the horn you want on ebay but sorry,I am not going to tell what they are.

Good luck and have fun.That is what it is all about.

veldkamp · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:39 am Post subject:

In my view it's a fair game, you can bid anything you like. If you think a horn costs to much, don't bid. If you want the horn bid high otherwise stay away. Or buy a similair horn elsewhere.
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jophst · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 6:42 am Post subject:

Well, when it comes down to it, it is after all "an auction" and fair game. I myself get frustrated as you do, but it's all part of the excitement.

I personally only bid the next increment on the auction just more as to watch it than anything. I never drive up the cost. The real problem are the snipers at the end of the auction. Everyone wants a good deal on what they win on Ebay but it rarely happens these days. Basically, be prepared to pay what you bid, and don't count on it not getting that high.

If there is a particular auction you would like me to stay away from, feel free to PM me and let me know. I've been staying away from horn auctions lately though.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

My first entry was a bit harsh... I'll re-submit.

As in all auctions, anyone can bid any amount at any time. Some folks bid to bookmark an auction because there is no limit on the number of watched auctions that way. Some bid early and keep bidding one jump at a time. Some throw in thier high bid at the beginning and never look at the item again unless they win. The bottom line is that it is an auction and anything goes. In the end, the bidder willing to bid highest gets the item. I would not dream of going to an auction gallery and asking the other bidders to hold off so the item would sell for less and I could win. I win rather often... when it's an item I want and I am willing to pay the price.

[ This Message was edited by: supportlivejazz on 2004-08-23 11:28 ]

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1846

You misunderstand me. I guess I was unclear. I am in no way, shape, or form asking someone NOT to bid so I can win an auction. I'm sorry if it seemed that way; that in itself would be rather assaholic behavior.

I am suggesting that bidding low and early simulataneously on multiple items, all or most of which you will never go back to and bid again on, is a strange behavior that does nothing but pump up auction prices. I am not talking 3 or 4 items. I am talking 30, 40 auctions...if you want an item, anything within the rules is fine. But why bid on so many when you clearly do not intend to buy them?

BTW, I am using "you" generically--I'm not talking to any of you who have responded here.

radiobob · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am Post subject:

Yes, it's annoying, but don't expect human behavior to change on Ebay. A local columnist recently wrote an article on her Ebay addiction. She described how she gets into bidding wars with others, between the two of them bidding back and forth and driving the cost up above what the item is worth. I'm thinking, you moron, why don't you just wait till the end and snipe? Ebay recently raised the number of items you can watch to 100 from 30, so there should be less reason to watch them by bidding. I know I regularly watch things that I know will go way above my budget, just wishful thinking I guess, but I can see people doing that with bidding too.

Bob

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 2065

I must be dense because I've never noticed this behavior, or perhaps never took the time to analyze who is bidding. That being said, I don't see what the problem is. This is bottom fishing at it's best. I suppose once in a while they nab a bargain. Frankly I bet most of the time they end up with junk that was overvalued to begin with.

Roy

tom turner · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 10:16 am Post subject:

Hi,

I believe an item can be de-listed by a seller if no one bids on it as long as there are over six hours left in the auction that has no reserve.

I imagine a seller would get REAL nervous on an expensive item if it was listed with no reserve and no one was bidding on it. I know I'd surely want to yank an auction I was the seller on if no one bid with a day left to go! Basically, if no one bids it could be construed that no one is interested . . . and no one would be harmed if the item was cancelled.

I think some people bid low and early to "lock" an item in!

Tom

bdev · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

Although this has nothing to do with bidding early I thought it would be interesting to the thread. If ebay were a REAL auction site, they would not have a fixed auction ending time. The auction should end when the high biddier has no other bidders bidding against him/her as in a real auction. Some auction sites have a "buffer" time zone...such as 5 minutes. If no bids are put on an item after 5 minutes, the high bidder gets the item. The extra time is added on to the actual ending time of the auction. This would make sniping a thing of the past. keep in mind that an extra 5 minutes would be added to EVERY high bid so the auction can go on until whenever. Any thoughts or comments?
BTW....I would hate this system because I like the thrill of the countdown!!!!
_________________
Schilke B1L / GRe65M/e65S
Yamaha B.Shew Flugel / GRe65FD
Olds Super Trumpet (LA 1946) GRe65MX
Reynolds Emperor Trumpet (1961)
Bach Strad 37 Trumpet
Holton 25 Cornet / Bach 6
MDT Morrison Trumpet (wind controller)

supportlivejazz · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 3757

Well, I can only speak for myself and my experience on ebay. I have purchased about 150 trumpets and cornets and flugels. I have resold about 130 of these and have lost money on about 15, broke even on 5. Made money on the rest... some a little, some a lot... on average 20-30% on my investment. I have kept a few really nice trumpets, all of which are listed in my profile. There are not any of these that I paid anywhere near retail for... except perhaps the Besson Brevette. I could easliy make 25% or more on each of them if I were to sell them. I listen to jazz mostly from the 40's through the 60's and 70's with several contemporaries in there as well. When I play along, it's fun to be using the same horn the artist is playing on and because of ebay, I can. It's fun. Can I afford a Monette like Terrence and Wynton play... nope. Do I have a vintage Besson and Committee when I am playing with Miles and his crew... yup. Or fats Navarro, Brownie... yes indeedy, got what they played. How about Blue Mitchell or Art Farmer... yup, yup... Kenny Dorhan, Lee Morgan and Roy Eldridge... yup, yup and yup again. Believe me I have no complaints about ebay. I have underpaid for most horns and I have found almost every horn I have looked to find. If I had to look in music stores and pawn shops or around the music business for the horns I own and have owned... I wouldn't live long enough to find them. I am cautious, I research, I ask questions and I pass on some and chase others. It has worked for me. Very well actually.

By the way... anyone wishing to drop thier old Committees, vintage Blessing artists, Besson Brevettes or pre war Olds Supers into the pond.... I'm feeding on the bottom most of the time... gurgle, gurgle....!!!

[ This Message was edited by: supportlivejazz on 2004-08-23 15:28 ]

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:11 pm Post subject:

sounds7 · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:46 pm Post subject:

I am always a stealth bidder when i buy on ebay. infact I make sure my computer time is exact with ebays because I dont place my bid until only a few seconds are left in an auction. Then to make sure I win the item I put my very highest bid down, even if it is hundreds more than the current bid. I have had the most success winning and getting a great price in that manner. At the same time, if I were selling something on ebay i would want there to be a bidding war for obvious reasons.

[ This Message was edited by: sounds7 on 2004-08-23 16:48 ]

oldblow · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject:

Having worked at Atlanta Galleries while in college and attended auctions for over forty years, let me comment on "sniping." This is an internet auction term; it does not apply to the live salesroom, although "sniping" takes place in every live sale. Sniping is nothing more that a very serious bidder letting all the less serious action take place before he steps in. The solution to "sniping" is to decided what you would really pay for an item, then live with the outcome! When I bought my near mint 1949/50 Olds Special on ebay back in April, a couple of you serious bidders ran it up on the last day, and actually took the lead bid during the last hour. I simply searched my heart, look at my bank balance, then tried to ascertain what a very serious bidder might go, and went about $50 beyond that, putting the bid well into the next hundreds category. A sniper ran the price up another $60 in the last seconds, but I had accounted for that. Of course,

last minute bidding, or sniping, merely forces all of us to consider how serious we are about winning. Winning is sometimes inexpensive, sometimes fortuitous, sometimes a result of a poor or misplaced ad, but winning is always achieved through research, knowledge, and skill. For a fortunate few, winning is a matter of being well-financed.

As for the plethora of early bids??? Well, there is an explanation to that. Some folks buy cheaply, work on the horns themselves, and either sell them in the open market or make them available to local students. These folks put in a lot of bids, don't win many, but that is their schtick, and it is, after all, a free country. I have, with rare exception, seen them jump in heavily on really collectible and playable horns. Ebayscrounger (Greg) is an exception, but he is a horn enthusiast, and I have fun just bumping into him at all the horns with vague descriptions and poor photos.
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Felton (Butch) Bohannon

DanMax · New Member Joined: 18 Aug 2004 Posts: 4

Buyers always want low prices. But remember, if the rules were rigged to keep the prices low, there’d be a lot fewer horns for sale on eBay.

My own auction strategy is simple. Don’t get caught up in bidding. Whatever it is, you won’t die if don’t win. Don’t do anything fancy like sniping. The other guy can snipe back, you get caught up, and there you are in a bidding war.

First step, educate yourself about the item. This includes web and forum searches, searches for similar items in other auctions, and direct questions put to the seller. Often you’ll wind up educating yourself about the seller, too. If the seller suggests you call him so he can answer you with the item in front of him, or some other such excuse, that means he’s not willing to put his answers in writing. Walk away.

Second step, decide what your maximum bid should be. If it’s unreasonably low, that’s fine, as long as that’s honestly all you’d be willing to pay. Some items I’d want only if I can get a ludicrous bargain—and sometimes I get them! Otherwise, bid the max you’d want to pay. It doesn’t mean you’ll have to pay it. There may be few competing bidders, and you’ll get it for much less.

Third and last step, bid your maximum and walk away. The auction site will tell you if you’ve won or lost. Don’t be hanging around, checking every minute as the close of bidding nears. Some sniper can make you lose your head and you’ll bid too high. If the sniper isn’t willing to bid more than your max, he can’t beat you. If he is, you want him to beat you. You’re sniper-proof.

nextbrassguy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Oct 2003 Posts: 1428

oldblow, sniping behavior, if not the term sniping, is fairly old.
I read recently about certain "auctions" in 17th or 18th Europe (England I believe) where items or item descriptions were placed on tables in a large room and bidders would write their bids on sheets of paper in front of the item or the item description. The bidding on each item was timed by lighting a candle next to the item or description. When the candle went out, that auction was over.
Unlike eBay, these were "first price auctions". If you won, you paid the amount you bid, not the minimum amount required to beat the next highest bidder. As part of the monitoring of the auction, people watched to make sure no one blew any candles out before they went out naturally.
Eventually, some bright person(s) realized that just before a candle flame goes out, the candle gives off a puff of smoke. By watching for the puff of smoke, these people could submit a last bid for the minimum amount required to win the auction. Since you paid what you bid, not the minimum amount required to beat the next highest bidder, this sniping made perfect sense.

[ This Message was edited by: nextbrassguy on 2004-08-23 20:26 ]

mcamilleri · Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:59 pm Post subject:

Posts in this forum regularly break the Ebay rules. For example, you are not allowed to contact another Ebay member to warn them off a deal that you think is dodgy. Colluding to reduce competition on bids may also be against the rules, though I can't find anything on that - the rules list is rather long. Shill bidding is the reverse, where you get a friend or relative to push up the price by bidding with no intention of buying.

You guys may not realise it, but Ebay tracks all bidders at all times, and will hand over records on transactions to government organisations investigating crimes. Of course, their definition of crime is their own business. Trade in illegal and offensive materials is one target, as are fake items that infringe copyright or trademarks, like bootleg software and CDs. They are getting particularly agressive about copyright and trademark infringement - otherwise they might get hit with a lawsuit like Napstar was. Big Brother is watching you!

Michael

JAZZ-PLAYER-COLLECTOR · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 1154

(1) Agreements between Ebay members to keep bidding down, or force prices up is against the rules.
(2) Early bidders do us all a favor by "locking auctions in". Bidding wars are what drive up the prices.
(3) Just bid one time in the very last few seconds. Use your refresh button and a wristwatch to time it.

Let the others bid too low, too soon, and too often, foolishly fumbling for an unlikely steal.
Then just bid once, right at the very end. I've bought hundreds of horns on Ebay this way.
No collusions, no shills, no bidding wars, no nothing. Just a simple and effective strategy.

Hope this helps some of you... Tom in Texas
_________________
7 Monettes, 9 Taylors, 8 Courtois, 8 Stomvis
7 Lawlers, 4 Leblancs, 3 Bessons, 3 Kanstuls
2 Blackburns, 9 Schilkes, 8 Bachs, 5 Selmers
8 Yamahas, 5 Committees, 2 Edwards Gen X
4 Marcinkeiwicz, 9 Harrelsons, and 4 Eclipses

jophst · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:47 am Post subject:

Or you could just cheat and have the internet do it for you with 2 seconds to go ... http://www.auctionsniper.com .... I've long used up my 5 free snipes!!!!
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB

jman · Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:28 am Post subject:

Hey Tom,

Do you have an extra horn laying around that I could borrow?

-jc