Why Do People Disapprove of Glenn Miller?

hose · Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 6:29 am Post subject:

When I graduated from music school XX years ago I had become brain washed into looking down on music that was old and "trite". We didn't do Herbert L Clark anymore, we did the Artunian or "the Hayden". And Sousa marches were passe in a concert situation. Only the latest avant garde Kenton arrangemnents were worth playing. Over the years it gradually dawned on me that the audiences really picked up on much of that "trite" music that I was beneath playing. I am sure that most who play general big band gigs have seen that the peice that gets the most applause during the evening is In The Mood. On concert band gigs, It's Stars and Stripes Forever. Over the years, I have gradually lost much of that music school haughtiness and discovered that music is more fun for me when it is played well and when I see the audience smiling and enthusiastic. And I have become really bored with playing Stars and Stripes now, but when I see how the public gets into it, it cancels out the boredom. And for what it's worth, on my income tax return, my accountant has always listed me as an "entertainer". Not a musician.

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big al · Regular Member Joined: 04 Jul 2004 Posts: 53

The man died, but his music lived on.....

Too bad it wasn't the other way around.

I have played the famous Miller tunes countless times, and someone said earlier in this thread that they had little to do with jazz which is pretty right on. I can't stand the music. Probably because I have a pathological hatred of clarinets (misery sticks). However, I do have a soft spot for Pennsylvania 65000.

PRogers · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Sep 2004 Posts: 953

bigbrowncow · Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 5:16 pm Post subject:

Tom is spot on in my view.

Tom LeCompte · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 2:07 am Post subject: Re: glenski

matzentrpt · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:44 am Post subject:

Here is something you can do to add some fun to those 367 year old tunes .....

Get the whole band to try taking Pennsylvania 6-5000 at quarter = 300 or so. Include the lyrics.
It's pretty frickin funny.

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Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Did anybody hear about the story of him not perishing over the English Channel, but in an Italian brothel?

Seriously.

Chris

_dcstep · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 10:19 am Post subject:

They're just letting you know that this is a contemporary big band. I don't think it's a diss of Glenn Miller, it's just saying this band doesn't play that kind of music. If you want to play forties big band, then there are plenty of bands that do that.

BTW, Dallas Christian Jazz Band does not generally play Miller-style, but there are some charts in the book that fit that and they're pulled out occasionally for crowds that want to dance.

Dave
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plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3621

Billy B · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:32 am Post subject:

Plank,

Sure there are good band directors such as yourself. Now look around you the next time you are in a room full of them. How many are competent? How many are even close to what you are doing? How many can teach how to improvise? I work with many students from different schools in the area. I see kids playing in a great in middle school who move on to the high school where the director hasn't a clue. I know a ninth grade director who is so lazy the kids make fun of him for it. I put 100% into my teaching and it seems so do you. Believe me, we are the exception not the rule.
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adamcz · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:37 am Post subject:

It bothers me that a lot of "jazz" bands at the high school level spend so much of their time playing music like Glen Miller, or even worse, disco and pop music (as was the case in my high school). It's a big disservice to the students, who can sometimes spend four years in their high school band, and come out not having been exposed to the real thing.

There's only so much time to go around, and the real jazz bands like Henderson, Ellington, and Basie need to be made the priority. Also, in most schools, the big band is the only jazz related course offering, so in those cases, the teacher has a responsibility to expose the students to Pops, Monk, Trane, Mingus, Ornette, etc.

There will never be a huge audince for jazz, but the best way to attract those who are pre-disposed to like it is to start in the schools.

Simply Swingin' · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:22 am Post subject:

Augh, that's pure rubish.
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GMacDaddyTPO · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:53 am Post subject:

I just have to say from a student's perspective...(I know, dangerous last words)

In our High School, we are normally playing charts that are for top college level and beyond, but when it comes around to playing those old Miller or Goodman tunes (In the "Blue Book" we call it), it's almost like a relief. Sure their annoying, tediuos, boring, whatever...but honestly I like to play them be cause I feel like I get a break from having to think (

).

Oh yeah and Pennsylvania 65000 at about 300bpm is pretty fun...!

Billy B · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:26 am Post subject:

It is good to keep pushing the enevelope but does feel good to relax. Thus the reason to have your abilities sharpened to a fine edge.
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Robert Rowe · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:08 am Post subject:

...tsk, tsk, tsk. My, my, folks.
OK to criticize -- but have a viable alternative to offer.
Most of you have posted valid points. And, as many do, Jazz musicians are beyond "elitist" (as someone posted). They/we have become too "sophistocated" for the audience. As that unfolds, the musicians will be playing with/for themselves. If that's cool for you, then fine. If you think you're so "hot" (or "cool" -- whatever...), sit down and write something that's good, with a good arrangement.
Had Glenn lived, I'm sure he would have "moved on" with his music. He had "good ears", and watched what his audiences reacted to. As the story goes, he would give in, occasionally, to his band-mates, and play what they wanted to play...only for them to discover that the audience was indifferent (and worse). He was smart -- a smart musician is not always a great musician. A general on the battlefield does not have to be the best marksman or sharpshooter...but, that soldier understands who is in command, and why.
We would all welcome new, better music and arrangements....
Shut up and get busy....

Robert Rowe

"...you cain't polish a turd!..." (old Southern expression)

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3621

Billy B,

When you mentioned above that you also teach instrumental music in Des Moines, I remembered corresponding with you on the TH Forum one day last winter when we had a snow day and our wives had to work! I've got my fingers crossed for a mild winter this year- haven't yet had any snow to speak of in the Lake Erie region.

I totally agree with your assessment that so many students miss out on a great learning experience if their school does not have a comprehensive, quality instrumental program which includes jazz, symphonic band, sharp marching band, theory, and private lessons and solo & ensemble programs. It's a lot of work to do all this, but the more the students learn and achieve, the more dedicated they become to the program.

The Miller band (et al.) is a good place to start when teaching big band swing and dance music, but it is, of course, not the definitive statement on the music. But the Miller music lives on and on, and here is a funny story to prove it: Just last week, one of my 7th grade sax players ASKED ME for the music to "In The Mood." So I handed sax parts to all the sax players, knowing they would all want what the other student had. Now what do I hear being played while students are assembling for concert band practice? You guessed it. I figure that if it gets the kids' fingers moving and feeds their enthusiasm for playing, then In The Mood is the greatest song ever written for saxophonists! (At least for this month.)

Bill, have a great year teaching and happy holidays. Keep doing the good work you do for your students.

Bill
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