Jens Lindemann trumpet rant

trumpetjens · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 241

Time for another one of my rants...I must be jet-lagged...again. Today, I would like to take on the 'Goliath' of classical sound...Bach trumpets! For many years, it has been considered an arrival point for young players when you buy your first Bach trumpet...you are now a professional!

My Middle School teacher had one and I still remember seeing it every day at the front of the band room on it's tall Holton stand. He would play cool excerpts from Jay Chattaway wind ensemble charts...we all wanted to be just like him. The very first trumpet I bought was a Czech made horn called a Musica (if anyone knows any specs about these horns, please do NOT write me...it was a terrible instrument although I didn't know it at the time). I was 12 years old and I bought that horn because it had a cool thumb ring on the first valve slide just like my band teacher's Bach. My rented school horn didn't have that ring so this one must have been better.

Finally, I bought a Silver plated 37 standard Bach when I was 14. Why did I buy that horn? Because that's what the local pros played! I had that trumpet for one year before I switched to the new pro-line Yamaha that had just come out with gold-like lacquer because I thought it looked better. Serial number 001010...I thought that was cool too...I used it as a P.I.N. on bank cards all through college...what a trumpet geek.

All through high school, I was one of the only ones playing a Yamaha. I played that horn because it was different...I wanted to be different. The more people said I should play a Bach because that's what the pros played, the less I wanted to play a Bach. It became a badge of honor to be different. Instead of trying to be different, I should have been practising more...E major wouldn't be as difficult today.

When I left my hometown and ventured out into the world of university abroad, summer music schools and international competitions, I discovered that there were Bachs everywhere...a veritable Bach invasion around the world. Let's face it, local classical players are influenced by and large by local symphony players who measure themselves by other symphony players up the proverbial orchestra ladder until you hit the 'Big Five'. Ominous sounding term like the mafia...you are just supposed to know who they are without needing to talk about it and when you learn those five cities, you have moved up a notch in trumpet cool. Anyone who says they were not influenced in some way by the trumpeters in those orchestras and their equipment specs is lying. It's like learning the Periodic Table...you have to know it even if you never use it.

Now the fun part, the mythic Bach sound. Yup, I heard it and felt it when I was 14. When did you experience it? That magical tone streaming from my bell had me destined for an orchestra if only I could play in E major. The last time I checked, it was "Phil Smith sounds great" not "Phil-Smith-sounds-great-playing-a-229H-with-slightly-shortened-first-valve-slide" I'm just guessing here folks, but I bet Phil Smith would sound great on my aforementioned Musica...even if he didn't like playing it very much. I would also venture a guess that Phil Smith sounds pretty good because he might have his fundamentals figured out.

My suggestion here is that it is up to the next generation to decide what trumpets should be played as 'standards'. An instrument should not be purchased based on the 'compromise' notes that you 'just-get-used-to' by lipping slightly. Some of you will understand that statement immediately, others will figure it out after going through their Periodic Tables. We are now in a new millenium and there are new standards that need to be considered. Instrument design has improved radically and there are people out there who have made a science out of studying subtle nuances that will improve the overall resonance of a horn. Not snake charming quick fixes but people with long term staying power. You have to find out who these people are...it is part of your trumpet curriculum and it should not be a surprise when you discover that it is an extremely short list.

Don't be afraid to break the mold...great playing and individual musicality is what is ultimately rewarded in our industry and a shift in the status quo is a natural part of any cycle. Don't believe me? Look at the history of democracy itself. Something about the sun never setting on a certain empire...

Jens Lindemann
www.trumpetsolo.com

trumpetmike · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:06 am Post subject:

Jens - please rant some more - every time you post it is not only makes me think but also makes me smile - you have a definite way with words (as anybody who was at the ITG conference will testify). All we need is some heckling from a certain Mr Vizzutti and this will be a perfect post

cdaigle · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 4:35 am Post subject:

From the horns Ive played recently the bar is higher than was even 6 years ago when I was in the market for my first C. I play a Bach 239 with Blackburn pipe and slide, and I "know how it works". Played the new Yamaha that Malone (amongst others) designed and it is a magnificent horn. Blackburn is another great horn that would work for me. But yes, the bar is being raised on the physical standpoint from my perspective which is certainly not on the same level as Mr. Lindemann's, and I agree with Mr. Lindemann, a trumpet will not play itself. For whatever thats worth.
Chad

DCB1 · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 6:06 am Post subject:

Another great post Jens! I see is most of the pictures of you holding a Bb horn you are holding a 8335RGS and yet you only mention the Z horn as your Bb. How do you like the RGS? Have you played the 8345RGS?

Thanks and keep the posts coming.
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DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

Thank you for a very insightful and worthwhile post.

There are definitely new standards to be considered and new choices available.

As in most endeavors and adventures in life, just because something has been done in a certain way, or has become a tradition or "standard" in the past, does not in any way make maintaining that particular circumstance binding on the future. There may, in fact, actually be better ways of doing it.

And, if and when those better ways are found, then the past needs to become mere history, and we need to move forward.

Change is a word that frightens many people. Many people will do virtually anything to avoid it. But, it's a fact of life, and those who will survive the future, regardless of the circumstance, will be the ones who adjust and adapt to that reality with the greatest ease and flexibility.

brad333 · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 7:51 am Post subject:

Yes, Jens, please keep ranting. It's nice to have another professional on the forum sharing his experiences.

It's also nice to know that that there is a professional, classical(well, sometimes

) trumpet player that's a member of the "I don't like Bachs very much and also like to play mouthpieces that are slightly smaller than the kitchen sink" club.

As much as I love tinkering with equiptment(I love tinkering with equipment) I'm beginning to realize that fundamentals is where it's at. I mean, I always knew that but I'm really starting to understand it and let it sink in.

Mouthpiece buzzing, longtones, flexibility, leadpipe buzzing, scale studies, and articulations here I come! I might even transcribe some Clifford solos.

ustacouldplay · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 8:22 am Post subject:

Nice post. It makes me wonder: what would happen if we started kids on E major?
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RNelson · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:21 am Post subject:

Hey Jens,

Great post! You crack me up.

I love this....

GordonH · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:52 pm Post subject:

I was the first guy round here to switch to Yamaha (the 6335HS). I happened to be doing some playing with some Orchestral players from the local opera Orchestra (moonlighting in West Side Story). Within 2 mohths they had got rid of their Bach's and switched to Yamaha. Then it spread like a disease. Even one dyed in the wool Schilke pro soloist bought one.

The main reason was the better projection and the greater tonal range. It made it a much more useful intrument, and the intonation was better, but not on an E!
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Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

I agree - there is nothing wrong with playing whatever instrument that you feel most comfortable with, even if that instrument is a Bach. So far, I haven't found a horn that I like better, so I will keep using the Bach. Yes, they have their defects. Each one is different, no arguing there. But if you can find a good one, they are hard to beat. Don't like 'em? Then don't play one. It seems like many of the horn makers out there are trying to build good Bach copies, so I guess thay can't be too bad...

DCB1 · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject:

I agree... play what you play best... just don't be afraid to try something different.
There has been some amazing transformations in trumpets in the last two to three decades. Horns like Callet, Wild Thing, Eclipse, Yamaha, Monette etc. have made great strides to improve the basic trumpet (original French Besson in the US). Some still like the original Besson (I had one and it was great) and that's OK. It is important to be open minded and not play something just because "so and so " plays one.
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MarkHeuer · Veteran Member Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 221

DCB1 wrote:

"It is important to be open minded and not play something just because "so and so " plays one".

I play a Xeno just because Jens plays one!

DCB1 · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:29 pm Post subject:

I hope no one thinks I was talking about Jens.... if he likes a horn I know it is a good one.
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MarkHeuer · Veteran Member Joined: 18 May 2003 Posts: 221

DCB1:

Anyone who reads either of our posts will realize I was joking and that you were not speaking poorly of Jens.

BigBadWolf · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 3:59 pm Post subject:

edit: I just read the earlier posts and agree - just because someone plays on something doesn't mean it is good for you.........

archer49d · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Jul 2004 Posts: 141

First let me say I agree with Jens in the fact that the bach is not the cure-all/silver-bullet for every trumpet player on earth, I have NEVER personally owned one and NEVER intend to. Why? Because when I tried my friends then new Bach 37 in High School the only thought that came to mind was... "wow, so it's like my yammie student horn, right?" However, I do say that I am not influenced in ANY way by big symphony players, there's two simple reasons, I have no clue what any of them use except Bud Herseth and something I heard about what the guy in St. Louis was using (he actually was playing a Holton). All my life the only horns I know what guys were playing were the guys from Maynard's band, otherwise I was pretty much clueless. The horn I settled on as my "supehorn" was one similar to what Dizzy Gillespie and Harry James used at one time or another, and even then I found out they used it AFTER I bought mine. The second reason is I was mainly a Jazz guy all through highschool, Classical playing was a fun thing on the side in Symphonic band, but I was never hyped up about seeing the CSO on weekends, like others.

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

trumpet cat · Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject:

Point well taken...but.....

I read a long report on the development of the new Yamaha C trumpet (Chicago C?)

It seems that Yamaha spent alot of time working on the design to get the horn to sound....not like a Yamaha...not like anything new or unique....but like a BACH trumpet.....

Have fun with this one! .......

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

Geez, now I'm gonna feel all self concious about playing my Bach on my gig.......

I think we are well past the period of time when you showed up with a Bach, maybe a Schilke or Benge. There are so many fine choices today, you can find the ax that fits your way of sounding and playing. If it's Conn V1, Yamaha 8XXX, Destino, Bach, it seems to me around here that it's more about how well somebody plays.

"Hey Denny, you sound great on that Vintage One!!"

"Yeah, got it from Fred when he bought that Kanstul WB. Fred sounds killer on it!"

"Dave's got a new Bobby Shew, did'nt think he could sound any better but he really does!!"

"Have you heard Ken on his Kanstul Chicago? Burnin!!"

"Somebody told me Ray's unreal on his Destino!!"

"Well, he makes so much money with that guitar cat he can afford it!"

Just some of the conversations from around here.

Russ and me, Rob are about the last of the Bach players. Maybe Jimmy B, one of the Symphony guys still has a Bflat in his case.

Oh well, I'll do the best I can to hold my head up when I open my case...just won't be a Bach case, I'll disguise it with my Rocky Mountain Case!!!!

Karel · Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:33 am Post subject:

I live in the Netherlands and I do know a few really great players who are always coming back to the old Elkhart Bachs or preferably a Mount Vernon Bach. They can play or buy every horn they will but they play an old Bach. I'm not on their level but I'm curious if it's all magic about those Bachs.