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richiegonzaga
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello everyone,
I would like to know at what particular time during my practice is the best time to do these exercises. Is it immediately after warming up before I do musical exercises?
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PH
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main thing is to never do this kind of practice when your chops are tired, swollen or stiff. At some times in my career I have done my CC stuff as the very first thing of the day. I would then take a break and come back and warm up as if I hadn't played yet. This actually worked great, but it takes some getting used to.

These days I usually warm up first and then hit my Caruso after a short break.
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expo1
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: GETTING STARTED 1 Reply with quote

_bugleboy wrote:
Pat Moriaty had his young protege painting a car and doing other menial chores that were seemingly totally unrelated to Karate and hand to hand combat.



Hand to hand combat? What is the best weapon in hand combat?
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ithink Indiana Jones had an answer in the first movie
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stevethebiff
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I studied with Carmine from June 1973 until about 1977. He told me that I was one of the first orchestra players to study with him. I remember Victor Paz at the lessons. Carmine said that Victor played his exercises better than anyone else. One of the best and most interesting aspects of the lessons was observing other player's lessons while I waited. Carmine told me that if the lesson was scheduled for 1, to leave 3 hours free as he would get to me when he had finished with all of the lessons scheduled before mine. He explained that he would spend as much time as was productive with each student. My longest lesson was 3 hours, my shortest about 15 minutes. I think his fee was $15. and each student was expected to bring him a cup of coffee. I remember that he began to suffer from vertigo, caused by hours of people blasting Caruso exercises at him from about 4 feet away. He then began wearing protective headphones.
Steve Schiller
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you do a reset with the interval SLS and LSL exercises?
I've tried it both ways, and have decided to play it safe in the meantime and not do a reset, and just return to it in the second session.
How did Caruso teach it?
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PH
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not quite sure what you mean by resetting. Once you start any of CC's calisthenics you breathe through the nose and don't disturb the position of the lips until you either finish that drill or reach the point of failure.

If by resetting you mean what Carmine called the "second setting", or resuming the interval after a brief rest at the point of failure, then that is different.

SLS and LSL intervals are done the same as regular interval studies. Go until failure. Rest for a few seconds then start a second setting where you shut off.
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PH wrote:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by resetting. Once you start any of CC's calisthenics you breathe through the nose and don't disturb the position of the lips until you either finish that drill or reach the point of failure.

If by resetting you mean what Carmine called the "second setting", or resuming the interval after a brief rest at the point of failure, then that is different.

SLS and LSL intervals are done the same as regular interval studies. Go until failure. Rest for a few seconds then start a second setting where you shut off.


Sorry - I meant the "second setting" - I've been calling things by similar names with different connotations the last few days.
Thank you - you answered my question (treat SLS and LSL as regular interval studies by using a second setting)
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Trumpet Will
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read that it is possible to use Caruso as well as other methods.
Would this apply when using Claude Gordon's systematic approach? Or would this be excessive in regards to calisthenic training?
Thanks, Will.
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Axiantor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been reading these starting posts and beginning to get excited with Caruso's Calisthenics method.
I started to play a year ago and all this information sounds very pro to me. Since i started i didn't played every day and sometimes i stopped like 3 to 4 days. I haven't improved much so i guess I'm starting. So I'm searching for the best practice sessions and trying to insert Caruso on my warm up. I would appreciate your opinion on this:

1 - Warm up

Mouthpiece buzz
Vizzutti book 1 long tone ex.1,3 or 4
Caruso Calisthenics

2 - Arban

My second question would be about the Calisthenics. I often read that we have to have the proper mind set and respect Caruso's method. What can you say about what this means in terms of lips, breath and tonging.

Many thanks in advance.
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, Caruso exercises can be strenuous so if you are just starting out (1 year is just starting out) take it easy on yourself. Don't do too much

The proper mindset for Caruso exercises is to not worry at all about how you sound, how it feels, what you are doing with your lips. Just follow the instructions in the book; tap your foot, breathe thru your nose etc you will have days when everything works wonderfully, days when everything is in the toilet. Put that out of your mind and just do the exercises.

As for tonguing, Caruso didn't get into that at the beginning. He saved that until chops were working better. wait on that, probably about a year of consistent practice
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JohnO
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:42 am    Post subject: Getting Started 1 Reply with quote

Just added thirds. So my practice started w 3 min of EZ mp buzzing - six notes - seconds w a second setting from where I left off after 20 sec - 20 sec pause - thirds w a second setting - 20 sec pause - soft low F# times 5. I ended up at CEC on the seconds and thirds. This took maybe 10 min.
I don't feel like I was pressing too hard but I was blowing hard. I kept the embouchure tensed but I did ease the horn forward a little between each interval to relieve pressure.
So, my lips came out of this a bit puffy. I played about another 10 minutes for 20 total doing flexibility work which didn't go so well - chops very unresponsive and had a little quivering occurring. I read in MCFB afterwards I should have waited longer if lips puffy which I will do today.
Is puffiness expected at this early point and should I have opted out before high CEC? Thank you.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Getting Started 1 Reply with quote

JohnO wrote:
Just added thirds. So my practice started w 3 min of EZ mp buzzing - six notes - seconds w a second setting from where I left off after 20 sec - 20 sec pause - thirds w a second setting - 20 sec pause - soft low F# times 5. I ended up at CEC on the seconds and thirds. This took maybe 10 min.
I don't feel like I was pressing too hard but I was blowing hard. I kept the embouchure tensed but I did ease the horn forward a little between each interval to relieve pressure.
So, my lips came out of this a bit puffy. I played about another 10 minutes for 20 total doing flexibility work which didn't go so well - chops very unresponsive and had a little quivering occurring. I read in MCFB afterwards I should have waited longer if lips puffy which I will do today.
Is puffiness expected at this early point and should I have opted out before high CEC? Thank you.


Puffiness is not expected. It isn't a sign of danger, but it isn't good either. It just is. The low F# drill will help alleviate this. That is the one CC drill that you just about can't do too much. Definitely don't do any other CC drills until the puffiness goes away. This might mean that if you wake with puffy, tired or stiff chops you don't do CC first thing in the morning, but you may have to play a bit of other easy stuff before hitting the CC stuff. Also, if you are doing the CC drills multiple times a day you might consider only doing them once a day.

Rest a minute or so between each exercise.

Play low F# between the 2nds and the 3rds.

Try resting for a minimum of 15 minutes immediately after you finish your CC practice. Don't play anything else until you've rested.

If a sound is coming out you should not stop ascending until nothing is coming out except garbage or air. If even a distorted or squeaky sound is coming out with only an approximation of pitch, then keep going until it shuts off. The book stops the ascending intervals at a specific place, but every CC student I have spoke with says he had them continue to ascend until the point of failure.

In another post you mentioned some things about manipulating the instrument/mouthpiece/horn on the rests. DON'T! During the rests you must keep everything set just as it was at the end of the last sound you made. Everything...including pressure, position of the lips in relation to one another, position of the mouthpiece in relationship to the lips, position of the jaw, angle of the instrument to the plane of your face...everything. You want to begin the first note after the breath with everything in exactly the same position you left off prior to the breath. No adjustment. No manipulation.
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JohnO
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:25 am    Post subject: Getting started 1 Reply with quote

Thank you, PH.

Puffy may have been inexact - lips didn't look swollen, but felt puffy - stiff and a bit noncompliant. I kept going to 20 min as I am aware of the 20 on 20 off practice schedule. Doing a quick mp buzz, six notes, seconds, and thirds will take about 10 min. It just felt like that was too soon to rest, but I guess it is the equivalent of heavy lifting and resting may be required.
I was only practicing CC once per day, first thing.
And I'll stop any horn manipulation during these exercises. I expect I'll reach a stopping point before CEC by not allowing a little off pressure between intervals.
Thank you again for your response.
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PH
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While he may have assigned the 20 minutes on and 20 off schedule for some, he never did that for me. He had me rest between exercises approximately as long as it took to play the exercise. I would usually do all my CC calisthenics in one block of time with "rest as much as you played" spaces and frequent low F# drills inserted throughout.

After reading about it first here on TH, I have tried the play 20/rest 20 approach and it never was as effective for me. That is certainly nothing he ever mentioned in my 50+ lessons and it is nowhere to be found in any of his books.
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JohnO
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Getting started 1 Reply with quote

Yes, that makes good sense and seems consistent with advice from various pedagogies that suggest pushing chops when they're tired/strained is not the wisest course of action. I'll try to use more common sense going forward instead of being such a slave to dogma.
Once again, thank you for the input.
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JohnO
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Getting started 1 Reply with quote

PH, thanks for slowing me down a little - that really helped. Added the low F#'s between the seconds and thirds along with a little longer rest than 20 seconds, and I feel good. That first F# doesn't come as cleanly as it would if I hadn't just done seconds w a second setting, but it comes without too much effort. Adding harmonics later in the week.
Thanks again.
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JohnO
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Getting started 1 Reply with quote

I'm going to be traveling for about 10 days. Can I do my MCFB routines on just my mouthpiece (6 notes, seconds, fourths, and harmonics is where I'm at)? Thank you.

Also, I need one point of clarification. The advice in MCFB states that substantial mouthpiece pressure while doing these exercises is ok and also states (in the seconds, thirds, etc) to not force the intervals past a certain point. I've taken the path to back off a little sooner than push forward by applying more pressure. This is currently getting me to a high E. How should these opposing bits of advice best be interpreted?
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PH
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carmine only put the disclaimer to not force the intervals as a safety measure for students using the method who were not working with a knowledgeable teacher of the approach. To my knowledge he told all of his students that there was no such thing as too much pressure, rather that as the embouchure becomes more efficient and finds balance pressure engages only as you approach your limits of range, endurance or volume. If you follow the directions for the calisthenics precisely you will find that the sound will shut off before excess pressure becomes a problem or you risk injury. Play the interval drills all the way to the point where the sound shuts off. Even then, when the sound shuts off keep blowing as if the notes are coming out perfectly until you reach the next rest/breath before stopping.

As far as doing the exercises on the mouthpiece (or for that matter, in a mute), a big part of these drills is to help your body find balance with the physics of the instrument. Doing the MCFB drills on the mouthpiece will make you a better mouthpiece player, but probably at the expense of your trumpet skills. Similarly, doing the drills in a mute will make you a better player of muted trumpet, but will not help your open trumpet playing and might have a detrimental effect.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Getting started 1 Reply with quote

JohnO wrote:
The advice in MCFB states that substantial mouthpiece pressure while doing these exercises is ok and also states (in the seconds, thirds, etc) to not force the intervals past a certain point.


Could you direct me to the place in MCFB where this is mentioned. Thanks
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