Dizzy = under-rated

[AccentOnTrumpet]

I think Dizzy is very under-rated, especially when it comes to his recordings. Many people are familiar with songs like "Things to Come", "Night In Tunisia", "Manteca", "Salt Peanuts", "Groovin' High", etc. but a surprisingly large percentage of them (especially among younger players, and I say this as a young player) are not familiar with Dizzy's original recordings of these tunes.

As a matter of fact, I think it's a shame that many greats are not listened to directly. Certain jazz players (usually associated with the "Wynton crowd") also seem to believe that cracking notes and chopping up phrases makes you sound like a better jazz player. Well, give a listen to Dizzy in his prime. Did he crack notes and chop up phrases? No way! Every note was as clear as a bell. Granted his tone got a little fuzzier when he got older, but in his prime Dizzy had such a wonderful clear sound.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[AccentOnTrumpet]

He may be regarded as a pioneer, but I don't feel people in my generation (and perhaps others, I can't say) pay enough attention to what he, Dizzy, the man himself has really played.

Guys like Arturo and Jon Faddis have listened to Dizzy but a lot of people don't go directly to the source. The original recordings dizzy made are very important. Who gives a crap about the recording quality? Great playing is great playing.

Maybe this all stems to my opinion that Dizzy is a great model of how a jazz player should sound and Wynton isn't, yet I see Wynton seems to have more of an influence on most players I hear.

[PRogers]

[AccentOnTrumpet]

Well okay, that's you. I think Dizzy sounds good regardless. Actually, it goes beyond simply sound. It's his ideas.

If people aren't being influenced by Wynton, maybe I'm just seeing/hearing things. I respect Wynton, but see a lot of players coming up are using him as a model of how to sound and I don't think it sounds good when they do it. I don't like hearing cracked notes and those pseudo-New Orleans sounds I hear so much these days. Sure cracked notes can happen, but in every phrase? Make it stop!

[AccentOnTrumpet]

[PRogers]

Miles does. Plenty of more modern guys do.

[AccentOnTrumpet]

Can you really say Miles cracked notes on purpose?

[PRogers]

I don't know how one could argue that he didn't. His attacks and releases were an intergral part of his style.

[Xenoman]

I agree with PRogers. One of the reasons why Miles is difficult to transpose is because of all his half valve and "ghost" notes.

All that aside - Diz is an amazing player. Never mind the high notes -- amazing ideas and composition skills. I love him!
_________________
Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzbrew.com

[Larry Smithee]

[AccentOnTrumpet]

Just about every jazz recording I've heard him on he does that. From his Christmas album to The Magic Hour to the "three trumpeters" with Payton. One exception I can think of is Hot House Flowers (very good) and maybe Black Codes. Overall, I don't really listen to his jazz albums much. I've seen him live a few times and noticed it a lot there too. In comparison, I'd rather hear someone who sounds like Dizzy (or Faddis) because I just find that to be clearer sound that I prefer. As for Miles, yes he cracked notes a lot, but his sound and phrasing made it forgiveable. Don't get me wrong, I think Wynton's a great player, I just don't care for that style.

I don't think Miles cracked notes on purpose, I think he just played and let whatever came out free.

There's this Faddis masterclass from ITG I found where he is teaching a young guy and they're working on Armstrong solos. Faddis told him that he needed to go directly to the source, and that his interpretation of Louie's work was coming from Wynton. I just think that other upcoming musicians should respect guys like Wynton who truly deserve it, but always go back to the source when playing a piece by a legend. That's why I think Dizzy is under-rated, because I think while he's a very popular figure, the body of work he has left could be appreciated more.

[sweets]

I would agree that Dizzy is under-rated, or at least not really known by a lot of young players. Parker was a genius at getting from one note to the next -- he instinctively understood voice leading, and his rhythmic sense was wonderful, but Dizzy was the mechanic, the guy who knew what was going on under the hood. He knew that if you wanted to be a good improviser, you had to be able to play some piano, too. He taught Miles so much, and many others. There is a wonderful CD of him playing and talking with Marion MacPartland. I also would recomment Have Trumpet, Will Excite --impeccable playing. I love what he said about Louis Armstrong: "No him, no me."

[Xenoman]

[AccentOnTrumpet]

Eric,

Good point. I think a lot of the problems are people taking what Wynton says and does out of context. As a result, followers who don't necessarily have the intentions Wynton does (keeping jazz alive, being a great trumpeter) appear. Kind of like how Maynard Ferguson is a musical high note player but has inspired loads of unmusical ones.

[Mr.Hollywood]

I've been a Dizzy nut since the age of 13. The very best Diz IMO are the recording he made with the two Sonny's (Rollins, and Stitt) in 1957.

I think his solo on 'Eternal Triangle' is one of his greatest.


Chris

[Yamahaguy]

Dizzy should not be considered 'under-rated' as a player, Thad Jones should.

[pfrank]

I got "Have Trumpet Will Excite" out from my town library--often--in the early 70s when I was in HS...also saw him at the 2nd Lennies' On The Turnpike (It wasn't on the turnpike anymore) Dizzy was NOT underrated in those days; he was reveared! Today he has faded a bit, but not for people who still rember and who rediscover his feats.

At that show Dizzy destroyed the audience with his humor...he said "Ladies and gentlemen, we are very honored to have an important guest tonight, the champ, Joe Fraser...come on Joe, give us a bow....
...Oh!...Sorry lady!"

I think every young improvising trumpeter should go through a heavy Dizzy phase. The only problem is from picking up Dizzy licks and over doing them! Those doodle-e-bop turnarounds... Some Dizzy copiers then did Clifford Brown licks to an extreem... Fortunatly, Miles showed us how to cut that stuff out.

[Rich G]

[lewis4545]

This may be a little off the subject, but I would recommend picking up the following set of recordings if you want to see an interesting progression of trumpet players with the same piano player:

Louis Armstrong Meets Oscar Peterson
Oscar Peterson and Harry Edison
Oscar Peterson and Roy Eldridge
Oscar Peterson and Dizzy Gillespie
Oscar Peterson and Clark Terry
Oscar Peterson and Jon Faddis
Oscar Peterson Meets Roy Hargrove and Ralph Moore

The Peterson recordings with Edison, Eldridge, Gillespie, and Faddis were recorded in the early 1970s and are all just piano/trumpet (no rhthym section), and really show off the ability of the players.

As all of the recordings are with Peterson, you can get a feel for the relative abilities and styles of the horn players. Dizzy's performance in particular is amazing.
_________________
Paul S. Lewis

"This world is a circus, so you have to do serious things with a light heart."
- John Birks "Dizzy" Gillespie