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marty_seshul
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Which brands to avoid? Reply with quote

I had a student's mother ask me today what to look for when looking for a new horn. I was wondering which brands I should tell her to avoid. I know Jupiter and Amati are below par, but what else?
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trumpetmike
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanna say it before anyone else - Bach

(ducks and runs for the safety of the Lounge)
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Trumpet Dude
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Which brands to avoid? Reply with quote

marty_seshul wrote:
I had a student's mother ask me today what to look for when looking for a new horn. I was wondering which brands I should tell her to avoid. I know Jupiter and Amati are below par, but what else?


Tell her what brands she should look for.
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wvtrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just heard rumors that Jupitor has improved a great deal!!! And whats up with bashing Bachs. Its a Bach world look around!!!!!!!!
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Gurukid
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wvtrumpet wrote:
I have just heard rumors that Jupitor has improved a great deal!!! And whats up with bashing Bachs. Its a Bach world look around!!!!!!!!


So true that I would rather stand out with a Bobby Shew 8310z than a Strad 37 or 72. For one thing, the shew is cheaper than the strad, and the other being it is made better, and with more care than the strad.
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2ndchair
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are the good choices I've had personal experience with. They are certainly not the only choices and appear (deliberately) in no particular order:

Getzen 390's
Yamaha 2335's
Student line Bessons
Bach TR300's (I'm not crazy about the resistance inherent in these but some players respond well to them. differences make horse races, you know?)

Step up horns:

Don't do it! Buy a good used pro quality horn for the same money.

Pro quality:

Bach Stradivarius. It might take a little shopping but there are plenty of good Bach trumpets around.

Yamaha Xeno, Shew etc. all very well made and very consistent from one to the next.

Getzen 900, Custom amd all the rest of their top line horns. these guys are really getting it and everyone ought to try a Genesis.

Schilke. A little higher priced than some but the fit and finish are still amazing.

Give Zig Kanstuls horns a try. The model line is varied and the quality of work is excellent.

Clearly there are a lot of other fine horns avalable. These are just the ones I've had good luck with over the years.

Brands to avoid?

Anything on ebay that sells for $19.99 and has a shipping cost of $99.00. If it looks like a lamp, it is a lamp. If you think it's a lamp. it's probably a lamp. If you are not absolutely sure it's not a lamp, pass.

Best dollars spent? Pay a good local teacher for a 2 hour lesson and go to your local dealer. Pick out a horn you all like the sound and feel of and take it home. Mail order is for gadgets you can't find locally. Musical instruments deserve careful selection.
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Tootsall
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Which brands to avoid? Reply with quote

Trumpet Dude wrote:

Tell her what brands she should look for.


It'll be a shorter list!!!
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Hack001
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurukid wrote:
So true that I would rather stand out with a Bobby Shew 8310z than a Strad 37 or 72. For one thing, the shew is cheaper than the strad, and the other being it is made better, and with more care than the strad.


so true. can't stand out with a bach....... because it sounds like every other. good advice for a Bb, not for a C, when you DO want to blend....

HOWEVER

Bach's are probably the best brand of beginner trumpet. as they are the most durable and consistant of any student model horn out there. I don't know the age of the student who's mother was asking, but if it is a new student go with any bach student line model.

If the student is looking for a step up horn or an older student looking for a horn to carry them into college, then there are certainly more/better (choose one) options than a bach, as well as more wallet friendly makers that would far exceed a bach, liiiiiike, Yamaha.

My 3 cents
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mheffernen5
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not recomend Holton. Yamaha from what I read is very good...
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Trumpet Dude
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2ndchair wrote:
Here are the good choices I've had personal experience with. They are certainly not the only choices and appear (deliberately) in no particular order:

Getzen 390's
Yamaha 2335's
Student line Bessons
Bach TR300's (I'm not crazy about the resistance inherent in these but some players respond well to them. differences make horse races, you know?)

Step up horns:

Don't do it! Buy a good used pro quality horn for the same money.

Pro quality:

Bach Stradivarius. It might take a little shopping but there are plenty of good Bach trumpets around.

Yamaha Xeno, Shew etc. all very well made and very consistent from one to the next.

Getzen 900, Custom amd all the rest of their top line horns. these guys are really getting it and everyone ought to try a Genesis.

Schilke. A little higher priced than some but the fit and finish are still amazing.

Give Zig Kanstuls horns a try. The model line is varied and the quality of work is excellent.

Clearly there are a lot of other fine horns avalable. These are just the ones I've had good luck with over the years.

Brands to avoid?

Anything on ebay that sells for $19.99 and has a shipping cost of $99.00. If it looks like a lamp, it is a lamp. If you think it's a lamp. it's probably a lamp. If you are not absolutely sure it's not a lamp, pass.

Best dollars spent? Pay a good local teacher for a 2 hour lesson and go to your local dealer. Pick out a horn you all like the sound and feel of and take it home. Mail order is for gadgets you can't find locally. Musical instruments deserve careful selection.


Stromvi's are very good. A very good beginners horn will sell for les sthen 500.
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king_liberty
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hack001 wrote:
Gurukid wrote:
So true that I would rather stand out with a Bobby Shew 8310z than a Strad 37 or 72. For one thing, the shew is cheaper than the strad, and the other being it is made better, and with more care than the strad.


so true. can't stand out with a bach....... because it sounds like every other. good advice for a Bb, not for a C, when you DO want to blend....

HOWEVER

Bach's are probably the best brand of beginner trumpet. as they are the most durable and consistant of any student model horn out there. I don't know the age of the student who's mother was asking, but if it is a new student go with any bach student line model.

If the student is looking for a step up horn or an older student looking for a horn to carry them into college, then there are certainly more/better (choose one) options than a bach, as well as more wallet friendly makers that would far exceed a bach, liiiiiike, Yamaha.

My 3 cents


I have not heard too much good from the student line Bachs.

Ultimately I would suggest looking for a used Pro trumpet. Even if it isn't in perfect condition, it would play better than most any other student trumpet. (and might cost only a couple hundred more)

I would also suggest looking for an Olds Ambassador, an old Conn 22B etc. These horns are great bargins, and play wonderful and have better quality than the new student trumpets.

If you must buy new, I would suggest trying a Yamaha, or a Getzen. But most new student trumepts feel 'bla' to me.

Just my thoughts.
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DCB1
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is wrong with Holton? The T101 is one of the most under rated horn out there.
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ZionTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess nobody plays on a King but me....
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king_liberty
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZionTrumpeter wrote:
I guess nobody plays on a King but me....


I think the old King instruments (before they were bought out) were some of the best instruments made. I love my old King Liberty, and I am presently looking for an old King Silver Flair.
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wvtrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamaha makes a great beginner trumpet, that said I still say its a bach world!!!! Nothing against Yamahas they are fine instruments as well, but the day Phil Smith orGeorge Vosburgh swithc to Yamaha than I will agree!
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Rich G
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reading between the lines of your question, it appears that the mother is looking for a new student horn, no???

I would not rule out Jupiter.

Giardinelli (NY) offers student trumpets under its own name that are very decent.

Yamaha's are fine, as are Getzens...

Ho hum... I guess it's time for the Bach Bashers to come out out again. It's true that Bachs are not made with the same consistent quality that Yamaha's are. Because Yamaha's are so consistent, if you try one of a particular model and don't like it, unlike Bachs, you don't have to waste your time looking for another one - it's going to be just like the one you didn't like...
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plankowner110
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the American made student horns are good- King, Bach, Yamaha, Conn, Holton, Yamaha (yes, made in Michigan). Out of the bunch, I have seen Kings hold up the best over the years. My favorite basic pro trumpet for a good student is the King 2005T. (Not every kid needs a Bach)
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marty_seshul
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my student is a beginner in grade school, right now he's renting his horn from a local music store
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Kanstul/Besson Meha, serial 440
Kanstul MB4 (1 1/2 B) mpc
Kanstul MB4L Prana
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
King student model
7, 5, mega5, 3, mega 3, C
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EBjazz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as Bach goes, the TR-300 is a good student horn. On the other hand the new Bach Prelude is the worst piece of crap ever to be made.
I'd be embarrassed to even own a Bach mouthpiece (I don't) now that this company has stooped so low. What garbage this horn is.
My favorite student horns are Getzen. The valves are never a problem.
Yamahas are good blowing, but the valves give kids problems.
The newer Jupiters are fine. Conn and King are good also.

Eb
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textr
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to say that the Jupiter instruments of today are vastly
improved over the past few years. They are truly a good value and
they make a number of good student and intermediate mo0del.
The Holton T602 is one of the best student line trumpets you can buy.
they are a good quality instrument as are all of the brass instruments that Holton makes. I would avoid Amati, Winston, or anything Costco
sells. Most of the problems with these instruments are due to the plating on the valve pistons. Jupter went back to using nickel plating on the valves and since have had no problems.
I have been teaching trumpet and band for many years and that is what I am basing my statements on.
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