Mixing and matching

josephus07 · Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:06 pm Post subject: Mixing and matching

Has anyone had any success mounting a Bach bell and leadpipe on a Yamaha body?

Is this as easy as mounting a Bach bell on a Bach body, or are the parts incompatable without modifications?

Thanks guys.

trumpetmike · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:17 am Post subject: Re: Mixing and matching

swingintrpt · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 1:18 am Post subject:

Ken Larson will do it too, and he'll stick his version of a Malone leadpipe on it.
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Examining the difference between
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Guest · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:53 am Post subject:

Looking for a Frankenhorn?

tom turner · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:18 am Post subject:

Sure!

Most any bell can be attached to any horn. Yup, the inner diameters are probably pretty close . . . but no problem . . . where there's a will there's a way.

These things are best accomplished when the moon is full and the tide is "out" in your specific locale. The result is a horn that plays like the one owned by Dr. Jeckyl. Horns converted on a new moon when the tide is full sound like a horn owned by Mr. Hyde.

Seriously though . . . why would you want to do this? Rumor has it that most manufacturers spend tons of money experimenting until a specific model plays as good as it can. Whenever ANY component on an instrument is changed or moved (even a brace) . . . the instrument WILL play and sound "different." If the manufacturer has already optimized his product to play its best . . . what are the odds that a "Frankenhorn" would sound better or play better?

Additionally, no one wants to buy a "Frankenhorn." They are sort of like a Ford pickup with a Chevy pickup bed bolted on. Once you discover it sucks you'll have a hard time getting rid of it. Luckily . . . human ego blocks out this realization for at least three months in most cases.

Food for thought.

Tom Turner

josephus07 · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:30 am Post subject:

Good points everyone. Why do it? Thought I'd try a Yamaha body (ease of playing, intonation) with a 229G bell (sound, ring, core, etc).

I think Ken Larson's site mentions this option, like Swingin' Tpt mentioned. If it plays great, no need to sell (because every project horn plays great

Thanks for the info.

bj · Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:09 pm Post subject:

modularwill · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: Bill's Yamabach

Yes. You are right about Bill Houghton. He did play an old Yamaha C trumpet with a 25GH & extra thick silver plate.
He then purchased a Xeno...Thinking that this must be the C trumpet to own, I purchased one myself.
A few months down the line I put a 25LR Bb leadpipe on it and it is a much better instument. Funilly enough Bill Houghton phoned me asking about converting his Xeno. I did this conversion for him and he now has his 25GH bell with reversed Schilke type fittings (ie the bell fits in to a slide) and a Larsen leadpipe.
It sounds great and shows what inteligent players with patience and an aimiable repairman can achieve.
I now play my Xeno C with a 229G bell & 25 or 43 R leadpipes but can also put on any bell leadpipe combination I like as the whole instrument is modular.
As the new Yamie C becomes available the older Xeno should be available second hand and just changing the leadpipe can really improve the tone & intonation.
While on Franken trumpets, I have an old Yamie Eb/D with tuning bell. Sticking a schilke leadpipe on improves the intonation stacks and I have also made the bells heavier by 33% by copper plating them. This gives the instrument more core and less sizzle.
Good clean fun!
_________________
www.willspencer.org
Modular Bach 37GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze 5 leadpipe
Modular Xeno C tpt 229GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze Mtv 7R leadpipe
Yamie Long Model Bb/A picc
Yamie tuning bell D/Eb with Schilke leadpipe & Xeno C bell

trumpetmike · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 1:48 am Post subject:

I knew it was only a matter of time before Will found this thread

bj · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Bill's Yamabach

modularwill · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: Bells for your B & S

Actually, B & S do make a bigger bell which I should have in very shortly.
It makes the lower notes much more secure as well as making a fatter sound. The problem you will have with the ones you want to try is that they may be too big. ie they will put you into D and re bending is not easy.
You may also be interested in the Bach 236 which can be ordered short.
If I were you I would try to get your hands on the B & S bell first before butchering stuff.
If you had the 3 valve, you may have got away with chopping the tuning slide. My Yamie happily takes a 72!
Email me direct if you have any queries.
_________________
www.willspencer.org
Modular Bach 37GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze 5 leadpipe
Modular Xeno C tpt 229GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze Mtv 7R leadpipe
Yamie Long Model Bb/A picc
Yamie tuning bell D/Eb with Schilke leadpipe & Xeno C bell

bj · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Bells for your B & S

modularwill · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject:

Hi Brian,
The 37 cornet bell should be fine. You will need to pester me regarding the B & S bell. It was ordered before xmas.
I havn't tried getting mine into D yet but B & S do slides & bell for E.

Cheers
_________________
www.willspencer.org
Modular Bach 37GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze 5 leadpipe
Modular Xeno C tpt 229GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze Mtv 7R leadpipe
Yamie Long Model Bb/A picc
Yamie tuning bell D/Eb with Schilke leadpipe & Xeno C bell

trombahonker · Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject:

Just thought I'd chime in here that I used a fully converted Yamalone that had a 229G bell on it - AMAZING instrument. Sounded great from what i can remember, however I still like my new Chicago more overall.

Cheers!
Aaron Norlund
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Trombahonker's Practice Studio on Youtube

plp · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:04 am Post subject:

Trombahonker has now officially won the best avatar award, fell out of my chair.

miles71 · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:12 am Post subject:

I just got a new Xeno 8445G and it plays great. Not the Chicago, but I dont make my living playing a C horn. I did try it with several other C's in a row and this one had something "special" to it.

As far as the bells go, I have been told that Yamaha is going to be putting a bell similar to the chicago bell on all of the Xenos soon. The new Xenos will have similar bell constuction to the Shew model, which was inspired by the chicago. Yamaha knows some feel the feedback and "lack of character" thing is a problem ( I dont think it is, I like my Xenos). Just to let you know, you might be able to get a Yamaha bell for your Yamaha.

Would you call that a Yamaha-aha??

modularwill · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:10 am Post subject:

Not sure about the Shew model but the new Chicago model bell is a different construction because yamaha reluctantly had to make the bell the same thickness throughout the flair.
This came from the players helping with the development.
_________________
www.willspencer.org
Modular Bach 37GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze 5 leadpipe
Modular Xeno C tpt 229GH/MK tuning slide & Bronze Mtv 7R leadpipe
Yamie Long Model Bb/A picc
Yamie tuning bell D/Eb with Schilke leadpipe & Xeno C bell

swingintrpt · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject:

Huh...When I was talking to Bob Malone at NAMM, he was really excited about the new bell construction. Do you think that perhaps they're only going back to the old style bell construction for a limited time, or is this something permanent? Has anyone played one of these new Chicagos? How do they play? Are they comparable to the original Chicagos?

Is this the wrong thread?

_________________
RJM
Examining the difference between
music and Music.

Guest · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject:

I guess I'm an experimenter - I just had a large and heavy Mf Horn bell installed on an English made Besson 10-10.....it sounds awesome...much like a vintage Benge I had about 35 years ago!