Blow your socks off, Bury you, Obliterate the Orchestra!!!

[Derek Reaban]

Blow you down, Blow your socks off, Bury you, Obliterate the orchestra!!!


When I see players mentioning this specific playing situation, I like to group these ideas and stories together. It’s been a while since I’ve done this, and I have more quotes to add related the same extremely important concept. This concept of course is Projection, Intensity, Resonance, Vibrancy…


This is a quote that I just read in the High Range Development forum:

FlugelFlyer Wrote:

[FlugelFlyer]

Damnit, that material is copywrighted!!!



j/k, my comments are summed up in the last sentence. I agree with you fully here. I'm the type of player who's sound tends to be in front, so this past Easter for example, I couldn't hear myself next to the other trumpeter who was playing fairly soft. I pick up the volume in attempt to balance, and all of a sudden he's playing louder . Maybe he just thought he should be playing louder than me, but it makes me think twice about what I'm hearing.
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Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT

[Peter Bond]

Some thoughts to add to the confusion:
The trumpet functions as a resonator and amplifier up to about high C (reflecting the energy back from the bell to create a reinforced standing wave). Beyond high C, it functions more like a megaphone (little or no reflection), which is why it requires so much more energy to play above high C.
The above was paraphrased from Macaluso's book on trumpet construction, but reinforces my own experiences and observations.

Resonance can help projection (especially in soft dynamics), but I think of it as more involved with the quality of sound. Just because a sound is resonant doesn't mean it will be louder. For example, one can play extremely loud with very little resonance. Most of us describe the result as strident and unpleasant, especially in a "legit" context. (This doesn't mean that there aren't pros that don't play like this).
I a "legit" or "clasical" context, I think of resonance as the quality which differentiates a musical sound from a "noise on pitch."

I bring his up to suggest that you may want to separate the idioms when discussing these topics. I notice that when talking about commercial players (Englebright, Ingram, etc), the focus is on high register and volume, which have little to do with resonance as most classical players use or know the term (playing as they do about an octave lower).
For the "classical" player, resonance is a critical topic; affecting color, tone quality, and in the lower register, projection. It also affects getting hired in many cases. The techniques players use to create these sounds in their respective fields are different (although there is some overlap). This is one reason you don't see players that can both (convincingly) play big band lead and sit in a top level orchestra.
Peter Bond

[Derek Reaban]

The reason that I brought this topic up today (in addition to the fact that I saw FlugelFlyer’s post today) was based on my playing circumstance on Palm Sunday compared with yesterday (Easter). Palm Sunday I played an Anthem with my church choir along with a high school aged player and then I covered all of the hymns by myself. I have identified hymn playing as a “danger zone” to be closely scrutinized for me to avoid the spread chops problem. Loud low playing raises many flags in my mind! Prior to the service I made a mental note of the areas that I wanted to focus on (secondary to the music):


From David Krauss:
He said it’s common to work too hard and make the aperture accept more air than it needs to respond based on excessive movement.

AND

…consider playing less loud and more resonant…


From Marcel Tabuteau:
The louder you play, the less it carries! In my opinion, the quality that carries is the amplification of the dolce tone.


With these things in mind, I backed off on all of the hymns, trusting that my resonant quality would get the job done related to projection. I know that my sound gets out there, and at the end of the service I felt little to no fatigue. I always get nice comments after services, but one of the cellists from the PSO stopped me on Good Friday and commented on how much she enjoyed my playing on Palm Sunday. It was relaxed, it was effortless, and it was extremely easy to communicate my musical message. No descants, just the hymn tune and the tenor line up an octave with a few ornaments here and there.

Now, Easter Sunday had more playing commitments (2 solos for 2 services, a choral anthem with another trumpet player, and lots of hymns – this time WITH the high school player). Since I was playing so early in the morning (started outside, brr!), I didn’t specifically in my mind say “play less loud and more resonant”, “watch out, danger zones in hymns!”. I found that the high school player was playing MUCH louder (to my ear from behind the bell) than I was and I just naturally upped my dynamic level to match what I was hearing.

WRONG ANSWER!

While my solos went very well during the first service as did everything else, I found myself a more little fatigued at the end of the first service than I had expected. Then I realized that my danger zone had crept up and bit me again. At this point I was able to correct my thinking, but by the time I got to the high C in the Mozart Alleluia from Exultate Jubilate, I could really feel what I had done in the first service.

Every time I think I have this danger zone figured out, there is a slightly different twist that rears its head. I guess that since “autopilot” will still guide me to this danger zone, I will need to plant these quotes in my mind PRIOR to playing my first note and know that what I hear isn’t always the best guide in this specific situation.

By far, I explored more music in my playing (especially the solos) this year, but it could have been even better. No compliants, just observations on my part that may benefit others in similar situations.
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[dbacon]

Hey Derek, did you ever practice the gig? You know, do an hour of Hymns just as if you were playing the gig? Simulate the playing conditions and condition your chops for the gig. I'm doing that right now, got a couple of 10tet shows this week I'm playing lead on and the parts range from small group Clifford sounds to some flat out blowing to G's.
So I'm simulating the gig, doing a two hour set each night so I'm not worried about spread chops, just swinging and making the band sound good, blow some solo's etc. For Easter I practiced very early at school each day, doing a gig simulation so early chops don't kill my response and I start pressing. You can't always practice this way, but when you can it can help your confidence. Use the body's adaptive process when possible!

[Derek Reaban]

Dave,

Now that you mention it, I haven't practiced hymns in years. I always play the tune, then sing the tenor line on the second verse, and then if I like it will play it for the third verse. Sometimes I'll just patch together the interesting parts of the harmony that I like the best.

But more to your point, I'm sure that my default mode (sound model) for hymns is the way that I have been playing them since high school (certainly with incremental modifications since then too). It only makes sense that I would drop into that comfortable groove without even thinking about it.

In this case however, I have identified a real danger zone in my playing that could be positively impacted by simply playing through them with a very different sound model in a controlled environment. Intellectually, I know that my sound carries MUCH better when I back off. Practically, I have experienced this with increased frequency over the past year. To get to the goal faster I should probably just go over to my Church and play through a hymn or two in the sanctuary at a comfortable dynamic with vibrancy in mind, before choir rehearsals each week.

Couldn't hurt!

Thanks for the suggestion.
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[Derek Reaban]

Peter,

I always enjoy the perspective that you bring to a topic. I especially like these words:

[mcamilleri]

Man, this goes so deeply into psycho-acoustics that we may never get out...

The human brain naturally identifies a sound by assembling the harmonic series. It naturally puts together pitches in this series and identifies them as a tone of a given pitch. If a sound is lacking in high harmonics/overtones, then there is less information to work with, and it becomes increasingly difficult to pick out this sound from amongst other sounds. This is part of the reason that the highest and lowest pitched instruments of an ensemble are heard more easily - the lowest and highest harmnonics are not competing with the fundamental or harmonic tones of other instruments.

The brass family of instruments is harmonically unusual in several ways:

1) The overtone series is absolutely pure - occurs at PRECISELY 1x, 2x, 3x etc the fundamental frequency.

2) The overtone series continues up past the limits of hearing - over 20,000 Hz

3) Trumpets have a LOT of acoustic power on overtones that are pitch from high C to triple high C, even when played at low volume. This region is also where the ear has maximum sensitivity. Playing a High C at fff, the overtone at double high C has MORE power than that at high C, and the overtone at triple high C is about equal in power to the high C overtone.

This means that the sound spectrum of a brass instrument is PACKED with the type of information that the human ear/brain uses to indentify a pitch or individual instrument, and has a lot of power in overtones that are higher than other instruments. This makes brass instruments easy to identify amongst the sounds of other instruments, and means that even if the total acoustic power of the trumpet sound is well below that of the other instruments, it can still be heard distinctly.

Anything that you can do to increase the high overtones, or to improve the resonance of the overtones (to use the acoustic term, make the overtone peak narrower and higher, which is a higher gain or Q-factor), increases the ability of the human ear to lock in and recognise that sound in the presence of sound or noise. It may have no more total acoustic power than before, but with narrower overtone peaks, the sound is much more discernable to the human ear/brain, and will sound louder as a trick of perception.

Michael[/img]
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Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist

[B_Starry]

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do justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God

[Peter Bond]

[trickg]

This is an interesting subject and I have had a similar experience myself that I would like to share.

One night on a big band gig, we had a lead player subbing in named Paul Dubois (I think I spelled that right) While I could always hear Paul in the section, he didn't ever sound like he was playing particularly loud. (If I remember correctly, Paul was playing a Schilke X3 with Warburton heavy shanked mouthpiece - not sure of the sizes) At the end of the night, we were going to play this version of God Bless America that was arranged by one of the guys in the band. Anyway, the guy playing the third book, (TH member Bobby List ) didn't have a part in his book, so as we got ready to play, he took the opportunity to hit the restroom. This really wasn't a big deal since much of the tune was either unison or unison in octaves.

During the tune I got a bit carried away, as did the solo book player and we were really pushing the volume, so much so that I thought that we may have overplayed the lead a bit. When Bobby got back from the restroom I asked him how the balance sounded and that I thought me and Josh might have overpowered the lead. Bobby said something to the effect of "Are you kidding? From the bathroom all I could hear was lead."

Later, when talking with the band leader about how the band sounded, he agreed that Paul sounded huge out front.

And as Forrest Gump says, that all I have to say about that!
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[FlugelFlyer]

[pmkt16]

Whered you get a Tom from a post talking about a Paul?

[FlugelFlyer]

[mcamilleri]

Regarding overplaying, or playing louder than you think you should. Often, trumpet players back off or don't play as loudly as they could because they think their sound is breaking up or getting too edgy. This is often a mis-perception. If you record yourself or have an experienced listener out front while you play as loud as you can, you may be surprised at just how loudly you can play before your tone becomes unmusical or unpleasant to the listener.

I know that when I play my 6335J with an orchestral mouthpiece (like a GR C or L cup) it is almost impossible for me to play loudly to the point of sounding obnoxious or too harsh. This is good news for my orchestral playing, as I know I can pump out the volume when I have to, and it still sounds good out front, even though I may not like the sound quality to my ear. It took some recordings and feedback from a good conductor to convince me of this.

It is well worthwhile doing this for yourself so that you learn what your actual, rather than perceived, sound and limits actually are. The pros know what their limits actually are, and don't ham-string themselves.

Michael
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Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist

[Derek Reaban]

Michael,

My sound gets louder to my ears when I begin to overblow, but gets substantially softer out in the hall. I’ve heard plenty of recordings where I thought my sound would be great on the recording, only to be disappointed by the final product. This is a danger zone for me, and I’m guessing for many other players as well. I know that Jim Thompson talks about the balance between lip and air, and there are many players that don’t use enough air and rely on their lips to make things happen. Others (like me!) provide too much air and are out of balance in the other direction. The right answer for one camp to find the proper balance is completely the wrong answer for the other camp!

With this in mind, I had a really great Wind Ensemble concert last night. In the wind ensemble I’m really starting to find my sound. It sounds rather weak to my ear when I’m playing within a thickly scored orchestration (especially when I’m playing low and “loud”). When I was warming up last night on stage (by myself before the concert), I was confirming how resonant and vibrant my sound was in that register without having to push at all. The sound coming back to me from the hall was exactly what I wanted!

I had a big solo in The Divine Comedy (The Inferno Movement) by Robert Smith for muted trumpet. It was the call to bring forth “the beast”. I wasn’t pushing at all and just knew that my sound would carry much better, regardless of what I thought it sounded like in close proximity. Since I was literally playing by myself on stage, the feedback from the hall was fantastic! This is one that I would have overblown in the past (not with a bad sound, just too much air, back pressure, and a significant loss of volume 20 feet in front of me). It was marked double forte. I just get softer when I try to put more air behind the sound (probably all a matter of perspective with the starting point of how much air I use normally).

Then the big offstage solo in The Ascension Movement was also right where I wanted it to be. A very nice mf melodic solo with (I believe) a quartet or quintet instrumentation (another trumpet, bone, and I think 2 horns). My sound simply sat on top and carried extremely well with very little effort from me.

Now I just need to transfer this feeling to Church and not get carried away with hymns!
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Winds / Symphony of the Southwest

[ustacouldplay]

[hazmat]

[mcamilleri]

John way 110 go! I use digital binary to count bars in orchestra and can count up to 31 on one hand. Geeks of the world unite!

Regarding overblowing versus loud. The difference for me seems to be lips. If I overblow, I blow the lips out, and mouthpiece pressure piles on. When loud, I maintain good control with the lips, and really pile on the air pressure. There is big difference in feel and result.

Of course if you never play loud enough, you will never learn the difference, nor develop the ability to play loud. Playing loud is a learned skill that needs to be practiced.

Michael
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Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist

[mcamilleri]

Also, overblowing I run out of air faster, and may get dizzy. Playing loud and full takes less air, and no dizziness.

Michael
_________________
Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist